Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is a conversation that changed my life, where he was asking me questions about my story and was like, you know, why are you in jail? What happened to you? Blah, blah, blah. And I started to blame my parents, started to blame girls. I started to blame this person, that person. And he was like, stop being a victim. And I was kind of just shook a little bit because I was like, what'd you just say? Like, I'm sitting here and I'm. I'm complaining about my life and blaming everybody else. You're supposed to coddle me and say it's everybody else's fault. And he's like, you're blaming everybody else for your problems but yourself. He's like, there's plenty of people that went through what you went through, whether it was bullying, whether it was not making sports teams, whether it was rejection from girls, whatever it was. And they aren't in jail. Right? Doug, welcome to.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Well, today is a very, very exciting episode because we have our first ever guest, which we are so excited about. Welcome, Doug. Doug Bopes is our first guest, also a Baltimore native, which is really, really cool. So thank you so much for being here. We have been pretty pumped from the day we scheduled this.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah, me, too. I mean, thank you so much for having me on. This is exciting, and it's really cool to see what you two have built collectively. I mean, y'all were just showing me the building and what y'all do professionally outside of this, and it's really inspiring.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Thanks. Thank you. And the fact that you're from Baltimore, I mean, we spent a lot of time talking about Baltimore on our mean. Everyone loves to hate on Baltimore. We love it. I think it's got all the promise in the world. And the fact that people like you are also out spreading the news and doing really positive things around the country and the planet in the name of Baltimore is exciting for us as well. So thank you for that and really appreciate it. And I'm happy that you got Doug's name right because we were concerned we would blow that.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And people did blow it a lot over the years. And I think this is, like, a interesting starting point because I think, in a way, it's going to provide a good leaping pad for talking about my story and that people used to say bopst all the time through school, after grade school, and I was so afraid to correct them and say BOpes because I just wasn't confident with who I was. I didn't have a high level of self esteem. And I'm like, oh, if I correct them. Are they going to say something about it? It's going to make me look bad? Are they going to make fun of me for the way my last name sounds? So it's just super interesting that now when people say it, I'm not like, oh, it's boast. But I'm like, hey, it's boast. It's not bops, just an FYI. And it comes from just a place of confidence now, which is something that I didn't have for quite some time.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That makes so much sense. And I was actually telling you before we were on camera that I had this very detailed introduction for you, which I think you deserve, but at the same time, why am I speaking about Doug's story?
Everybody wants to hear it from you. So I think if you're cool with it, we'd love to get right into your story. And one thing to set the stage, I want to hear everything. But one thing I definitely want to end on is what you're doing now in the business world and in the future. Because in every podcast I've listened to that you've been on, which is many, there's not a lot on what you're doing now and what you see for the future. And for me, selfishly, I want to know that and I'm sure other people will be interested. And so I definitely don't want to miss that part.
[00:03:23] Speaker C: Yeah, we want to touch on the end business part as well as part of it, and our audience likes that. I'm excited to hear and really the transition from where you were and now you've built a business out of it and just around the intentionality, too. Did it ever occur to you or did you just set out? So I'll shut up. That's future, but you get into it. And I have a whole page of questions and there are a lot of similarities or things that resonated with me in doing the research to understand where you came from, whether it was some of the stuff about your dad. And so I have a ton of questions, but I promise I'll shut up and let you get into it.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: So where do you want to start? Where do you want to start, Doug?
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I think a lot of people relate to what I went through as a kid because obviously I was incarcerated on felony drug charges back in 2008, and that became the catalyst for transforming my life. But people who maybe who haven't been to jail or don't plan on going to jail or whatever the example is, they may not relate to that as much because they're like, well, he was in jail. How does that relate to me? But I'll tell you how the start of it and everything leading up to it does.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: So growing up, I mean, it's interesting. Now, the podcast that I have is called the adversity advantage. But growing up, I faced a lot of adversity, and I used it to my complete disadvantage. And adversity, for me, looked like my parents getting divorced when I was five years old. Very contentious divorce, where my parents hardly spoke to each other, started to ask myself, what's wrong with me? Why are my parents splitting up? Why are they acting like this? When all the other kids that I hung out with, essentially we're still living at home with both parents. And I was now splitting time 50 50 between going to my mom's house and going to my dad's house. So I have that going on. Then on top of that, I loved sports, loved playing sports, loved watching sports, loved watching sports center, loved collecting baseball cards, football cards. But I was as unathletic as they came. And I was the kid that always wanted to make the travel teams, never made them. I wanted to make the high school teams, never made them. I was on the practice squad or a manager or something. And so I started to really develop this sincere mentality of what is wrong with me? Why is the world against me? Why is it that I have the same passion and love for things that my friends have, but I'm not getting the same results that they are?
That was with sports and then also with girls. I didn't have a lot of luck with girls in school, even though I was interested in them. And it was because I just lacked the self confidence. I also started to gain weight at a young age where I was buying husky pants and stuff when I was ten, 1112 years old, started to develop.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, husky pants. I do know what that means. And that is, yeah, there's actually a brand called husky, which wasn't the best thing in the world.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: No. But I started to develop some body fat at a young age. And again, I started to ask myself, what's wrong with me? Why am I essentially eating the same stuff as my friends? Why do I have the same passion for things like sports and stuff, and yet I'm not living up to the same type of, I'm not living the same life that they.
My mental health really started to suffer because I was also being bullied in school a lot, being picked on one of my nicknames in high school or was it grades. I forget whether it was middle school or high school, but was down syndrome, Doug. And it just sat with me because I was like, maybe there is something wrong with me.
Like I said, because I'm not making the sports teams even though I like them, not athletic, I'm not getting attention from girls. I'm being bullied. Maybe there is something inherently wrong with me. And I started to internalize that, and I needed a way to check out. And that first thing for me came by means of marijuana, where when I was 14 years old, one of my neighbors offered me a hit off a marijuana pipe, and I smoked it. And I felt this massive weight come off my back where I could finally be at peace with myself. I didn't have to worry about my luck with girls anymore. I didn't have to worry about sports. I didn't have to worry about my family life. I didn't worry about anything. Just felt so much peace. And that feeling became addicting to chase for me, right? Because I could finally be at peace with who I was. And I just started to smoke every single day to start to support my habit. And then that created tension with both my parents, specifically my mom, and ended up getting kicked out of her house on my 16th birthday because at that point, I had been selling a little bit on the side to support my habit. I just had a party not too long before that, while she was in the hospital trying to fit in and being with the cool crowd. And after that, after I got kicked out, she sent me to live with my dad. And I just felt this crazy sense of abandonment from that because I was really struggling inside and battling some deep, deep stuff. And I felt like I needed my mom in that moment. But I think she was also doing the best she could with what she had then and went to go live with my dad. And my dad and I didn't see eye to eye. We didn't have the best relationship. So it just took a toll on me. And I guess they thought that I was messing up so much and behaving so negatively that if they just removed me from my environment and put me in a new environment, that maybe I would turn things around. But all it really did was it just created new trauma, new insecurities, more mental health issues that I had to now numb once I got to this new high school and then did the same stuff. Barely graduated high school because of poor attendance stuff.
And then once I graduated, a lot of my friends went to college or they went and worked because I grew up the second high school I went to was like, a more rural thing where people were just going. They would get jobs on farms and construction and stuff like that.
And so I was just thinking to myself, well, what am I going to do? I'd gotten into a few colleges, but my parents didn't have money for me to go to college. And I had gotten into a community college, but I went to some classes. I was like, yeah, I don't know if this is for me.
So I started to sell drugs, started to sell pot to make money, to find purpose, to have some sense of meaning in the world. Because when I was selling drugs, what it did for me was it filled that void of not being lovable because I felt unlovable for so long, given what happened with my childhood. And then that became addicting, that lifestyle became addicting. And then as you start to sell drugs, as I was starting to sell more pot, you start to meet more people who were doing drugs, doing harder drugs. So I got introduced to cocaine shortly after graduating high school, got addicted to that. But the problem with cocaine and myself was I was also, like, a very anxious kid. And coke and anxiety go about as well together as, like, eating pizza and trying to lose weight. It's just not a good thing. And I started to develop these massive panic attacks, which were hard because I would get them now.
When I started to smoke weed, which I had never really gotten before, but I think I had just smoked so much and done so many drugs. And also my life, it was in shambles at that point. And eternally I was just so broken that I was just in this constant fight or flight survival mode that the weed just made me super paranoid. And that became a problem because that was all my friends and I did, was we would dedicate every single day to riding around, getting high, listening to music, and eating unhealthy foods. And I couldn't escape that because of the fact that I grew up in a more toxic family situation. I guess you could say I was drawn to my friends much more because they helped create some sense of family for me.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: Yeah, that makes sense. Almost like that has a similar took. So we spent some time in the city, and whether it's gangs and not, that was necessarily a gang, right? It was rural, but the same feeling, right, where they created this family for you, and you all rallied around something, good or bad, you rallied around something, and there was at least some familiarity, maybe some trust and a comfort in that or in that setting with those friends, albeit you guys racing towards peril at the same speed. At the same time, you still felt comfortable doing it together for sure.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: And there was several rock bottoms, I think, in my childhood. And the first, I guess, smaller rock bottom, was at this time I had a massive panic attack. And it was before I knew what a panic attack was. And I thought that I was dying. I thought I was literally having a heart attack. And I was high on drugs. I was smoking cigarettes at the time as well, eating unhealthy. I had, at this point, also been to several of my friends funerals. So I was like, well, maybe I am dying, given the life that I'm living. And I rushed to my friend's house, who I was staying with because I got kicked out of my dad's house shortly after high school. And I spent the entire summer after high school bouncing around from couch to couch at my friend's houses. And I had established some residency at my one friend's house for a few months. But the rule was, once he went off to college, I had to move out and find my own place. And so it was around the time where he had just went off to college. I was trying to figure some stuff out. I am racing home to his house. I'm calling his mom for his mom to come out, and I'm telling her that I'm dying. Takes me to the hospital up in Hartford county, and I'm, like, running to the emergency room screaming, help. Help, I'm dying. I'm dying. And they're like, sir, like, sit down. You're not dying. And they end up taking me back into a room and examining me, doing all these tests. And they're like, surprisingly, because I told them what I was doing, like, drug wise, because I had to be honest with them just to make sure that there was nothing going to be wrong with my heart. Given everything you just said to us, your heart is actually really healthy.
You have really bad anxiety, and you just had a panic attack. And so I started to learn more about what that was. And you would think, though, at that moment, that it was like, all right, Doug, you've done so much to damage your life, to the point now you're in the emergency room thinking you're having a heart attack, but it's really just a horrible mental health episode, and it's now time for you to change. Like, change your friends, change everything. But no, I had to maintain that lifestyle. And then that led to me being introduced to painkillers, and somebody gave me a five milligram Percocet one day, and I felt that same weight come off my back then that I did when I started to get high with pot. And the other thing it allowed me to do is I could get high without having anxiety so I could maintain that lifestyle with my friends. And I didn't realize, though, how quickly I would become addicted to the painkillers. Now, I knew I wasn't, like, eating spinach and broccoli, right, right. But I just didn't know how quickly and these things were going to.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: You thought Len bias was a one off.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: And I was also like, addicts are the. I mean, I was the king of rationalizing stuff.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: And I'm like, well, I'm not putting a needle in my arm. I'm not doing heroin. These are just painkillers, right? These are legal. These are pharmaceuticals or whatever.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: They're in an Arn's bottle, which makes it okay.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: And so five milligrams a day quickly turned into 1020. All the way up until I'm snorting 300 milligrams of OxyContin up my nose every single day to support my habit. Having to snort 100 and 5160 milligrams in the morning just to be able to get out of bed.
And my life quickly fell apart. I mean, just damaged relationships, broken relationship with myself.
Just no outlook on life. Didn't think I was going to live to see my 25th birthday and Cinco de Mayo of 2008. Everything came to a head for me, where I was riding around with a few of my friends to make a drug deal. And I'd had a busted headlight, which I'd been meaning to fix. But because fixing a headlight would take time away from me getting high or selling drugs, I didn't do it right.
So I'm riding around with this busted headlight, cops running radar at night.
I flashed my high beams at the police officer, thinking that would hide the fact that I had a busted headlight. But in reality, it just gave him a reason to pull me over. Because what do you do when you're trying to alert somebody, there's a cop? You flash your high beams on Cinco de Mayo.
[00:15:17] Speaker C: De Mayo, yeah, exactly. We didn't ask you what time it was, but I'm sure it wasn't a great answer either.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: It was a night, of course, and I see the cop turn his lights on. My heart sinks into the pit of my stomach. I really thought my life was over at that point.
Pulls me over. And I was incredibly nervous for a variety of reasons, but the main reason was I had a half a pound of pot in my trunk, I had $2,000 in cash in the glove box. I had a scale. And the cop ends up coming up to my window. I stammer to get my license and registration out. One thing leads to the next, pulls me out of the car, puts me in handcuffs, and searches the car and finds everything. Finds the scale, finds the weed in the trunk, finds the money. And I'm sitting in the back of this cop car now facing felony drug charges, because when you're caught with selling weed, the charges, possession with intent to distribute marijuana, which is a felony. I just thought to myself, like, how did I get here? How did the kid who just wanted to be good at sports, how did the kid who just wanted attention from girls, how did the kid who just wanted a good relationship with his parents, how did that kid get to the place where he's now in this back of his police officer's car? And as I look back and I've grown so much, it was because I just couldn't deal with pain, emotional pain, mental pain.
And I just couldn't figure out how to feel, like, loved in a natural way. I couldn't figure out how to feel good about myself in a natural way. So I get taken to jail that night, charged with that felony that I mentioned. My dad bails me out the next day, and then I end up going to court in September of 2008. So, a few months later, 20 years old, and the judge in my mind at the time, threw the book at me because he sentenced me to five years in jail, suspended everything but 90 days. Meaning if I had violated probation or done anything that went against some of the stuff that he told me to do, I could have potentially gone back and served the full five years instead of the 90 days. So he gave me that jail sentence then he also gave me five years of probation, 200 hours of community service, all kinds of fines and drug classes. But he looked at, he's like, Doug, you're young. You're 20 years old. This felony conviction is going to haunt you for the rest of your life. He's like, I'll make you a deal. And I'm like, deal? I'm like, I'm going to jail right now.
[00:17:41] Speaker C: What's the deal look like, sir? I'm not sure I want any parts of that shit.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: What's the deal? He's like, if you complete everything without messing up, you don't miss a probation appointment. You don't fail drug tests. You do your time, you do all that stuff. You don't mess up at the end of your five years of probation, you can come back into my courtroom. I'll take the felony conviction off your record and give you probation before judgment.
[00:18:04] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: And like I said, I didn't think I was going to live to see my 25th birthday. So I just was like, all right, well, I'll take the deal, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it. Like I said, I'd been to several funerals of friends of mine, and not just people that I knew on Facebook. I mean, like, people that I spent time with. I ran around with a rough the crowd. And I had also proven to myself that in every facet of my life, I was a freaking failure, whether it be relationships. I had 21 jobs by the time I was 21 years old. I just wasn't good at sports. I just continued to self destruct my life. So my mindset around everything was just so damaged and so far removed from any kind of hope, but nonetheless, took the deal and reported to jail a few weeks later, which was, ironically, about a week after my 21st birthday.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: I have a quick question for you, Doug, because one thing that I heard in your story that was a real sticking point for me is that when the cops were going through your car, you allowed them to go through your car.
To me, it's almost like, because you said you were a smart kid, you always had ambitions. Was there some part of you that was relieved by, like, I can get out of this lifestyle? You're going to jail. You're scared shitless, I'm sure.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: But any part of you that just felt like a relief, like, I can stop now, I can take a break, or was that not even in your view?
[00:19:27] Speaker A: I think subconsciously probably. Certainly not consciously, sure, because I was so scared. And it wasn't like I was like, few. I can just have a safe place to be. I was very scared, nervous. I had a drug dealer, a lot of money. I mean, there was a lot going on there.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: And you were high, obviously. You were high as hell, too.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: I was like, the ultimate buzkill was me on my way to get my fix and then being arrested by the police, having all my money taken from me, all my weed, and I'm going to jail. Like, the ultimate buzkill. Yeah.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: So I have a question. What did you, in that period, period of time between there and going to court, what did you do for that time? Right, because you're out and you're free again, I imagine, right? You had bail, or however that worked, what did you do? In that period of time, did you go right back and you're like, oh, I got one last party, and I got to get this in, or what did you do?
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I just was like, you know what?
[00:20:14] Speaker C: Went back to the life. I got to really get into this now because my day is coming.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Well, like I said, I couldn't deal with discomfort. I couldn't deal with pain. I couldn't deal with uncertainty. I couldn't deal with my anxiety. So I had to figure out a way to do that. So me trying to straighten out my life only to fail again, which is what I thought I would do, just didn't make sense to me at that point. Sure. I mean, I got a job at a restaurant. It was called Damon's. Remember Damon's up in Hunt Valley, which is now the green turtle? Yes.
Because part of what I was trying to accomplish with jail was getting on work release, where if you had a job and it had to be approved by different people, I could have been allowed to leave jail and then go to work during the day. But I think I ended up getting fired from. I forget exactly, but when I said I had 21 jobs, by the time I was 21, every one of those jobs, I either quit on short notice, did it the wrong way, or I.
[00:21:13] Speaker C: Was fired and probably fired for truancy.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: We talked about it at school. You just stopped showing up to go do something else.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Or I would just do dumb stuff because my mind just was not in the right place at all. Sure. But, yeah, I just kept on the path of debauchery over that summer and just thought of it as, like, one last dance, right? Yeah, absolutely.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Do you think anything would have changed if, say, that happened now? Just. There's so much more talk, as you know, about mental health and resources and tools available than there was back then in 2008, we didn't have that. I don't remember anyone talking about mental health or just having the tools and resources. So I'm just wondering if you were going through that today, if maybe it would have been a different situation with just more resources. I don't know.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: I don't know. It was hard to talk about stuff like that because even as a kid, which was when I would say a lot of the damage that was done was when I was in school and I was bullied a lot.
[00:22:11] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: That really messed me up for a long time.
But even now, it's like parents will ask me, what do I say to my kid who's being bullied? I'm like, the self help answer is, just focus on yourself and being strong and don't worry about what other people tell you. That's a reflection of them. But it's like, does a 13 year old want to hear that?
[00:22:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: No.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: I couldn't even comprehend it.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: It doesn't even make any sense.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: So it's hard for me to answer that question. I mean, I think if my arrest and if people had found out about my addiction and stuff, if that would have happened today, I'm sure I would have had access, and it would have been easier, maybe, to get the help that I wanted to, given that it's way less stigmatized today than it was back then. But as far as me actually improving my life, a lot of the collateral damage occurred during those early teenage years, because it's like, people ask me, is there anything that I would have wanted? Is there anything that I could have been given at that time that would have gotten me out of that and into. Onto a different path? It's really hard for me to answer that, because I'm sure we will get into this. But just to provide context, if my mom, for instance, had said, hey, I have a magic lamp. I'm the genie. You get three wishes.
And these three wishes are, I'm going to give you whatever you want. But if I give them to you, if you do drugs again, I'm allowed access to the rest of your money for the rest of your life. And I would have been like, okay, deal.
Those three wishes for me would have been, I want attention from pretty girls. I want a six pack and big biceps, and I want to be successful and have some level of status.
And in my 20s, after jail, after really changing my life and accomplishing some stuff, I had those things. I mean, I had, like, an eight pack. I was 5% body fat.
Got attention from pretty girls, very successful in my career. I was still miserable because I hadn't worked on a lot of the stuff that I needed to work on, like the internal validation and just the way I saw myself and forgiveness and confidence and stuff like that, I still was just miserable and broken. And so I think that for me, I wanted to do whatever I could as a kid to just feel seen and validated and valued and loved. No matter what the attention was. It could have been me doing something dumb at a party just to get any kind of attention, because back then, any attention was better than no attention. Sure. Absolutely.
[00:24:45] Speaker C: Yes. 100% agree. Those are all such great points. So you just said something really interesting. You did get that right. You talked about, you did get the 5% body fat and the eight pack and the pretty girls. So you had developed at that point, what I would call some superpowers, right?
Did you use them for good? Did you bounce from female to female? Did you party harder when you got some of those superpowers that you wanted so badly? Did you use them for good? What did you use them for?
[00:25:13] Speaker A: I wouldn't say I use them for good. I mean, at that point, I wasn't partying anymore. I was out of jail. And when I went to jail is when I stopped using drugs.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Let's go back to the jail experience.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Like I said a few minutes ago, I reported to jail about a week after my 21st birthday. And when I walked into jail, I cried because I didn't want to go in. And when I left, I cried because I didn't want to leave. And the reason is this. So the first thing I had to do when I got to jail is detox, cold turkey from OxyContin, which was like having the worst case of the flu for, like, weeks, like every symptom you could imagine. And my soon to be cellmate was sitting at the scrabble table, and he looked at me and I was like the kid who had the shoulders rounded forward, talked very know, looked down at the ground when I spoke, just no confidence at all. And he could tell. So he's like, hey, when you get through your detox, you're going to start working out with me. And this guy was like the more jacked version of Brad Pitt from Fight Club, is how I like to describe him, just to paint, like, a picture. This guy was super jacked and in awesome shape.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: Is he still living?
[00:26:21] Speaker A: No, he passed away a couple of years ago. Wow.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: What was the age difference, just out of curiosity?
[00:26:26] Speaker A: I think he was, like five, six, seven years older than me. Something like that.
[00:26:29] Speaker C: Oh, goodness. So he died in his 30s?
[00:26:31] Speaker A: He died 40s? Yeah, I think. Early four, I think. Yeah, because I think he's. How old is Eric? I forget, but I think he died when he was in his early 40s, I'm pretty sure.
So, anyway, he looked at me and he was like, you're going to start working out with me. And I was just like, there's no way I'm going to work out with you. At the time, I could have been a model for Pillsbury. I was 50 pounds heavier than I am now, and I was fat.
I mean, body fat.
If you took a body fat calculator, I would have been, like 40% body fat. Right. Because I wasn't, like, heavy and strong. I was just pure.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Like you were soft.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:27:09] Speaker C: I know. Get that.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
So I told him, I was like, there's no way I'm going to work out with you. And then I saw him do a bunch of push ups, pull ups, and stuff in the common area of the jail. And then we started to have a conversation, like, not too long after that, and this is a conversation that changed my life, where he was asking me questions about my story and was like, why are you in jail? What happened to you? Blah, blah, blah. And I started to blame my parents, started to blame girls. I started to blame this person, that person. And he was like, stop being a victim. And I was kind of just shook a little bit because I was like, what'd you just say? I'm sitting here, and I'm complaining about my life, and I'm blaming everybody else. You're supposed to coddle me and say it's everybody else's fault. And he's like, you're blaming everybody else for your problems but yourself. He's like, there's plenty of people that went through what you went through, whether it was bullying, whether it was not making sports teams, whether it was rejection from girls, whatever it was. And they aren't in jail, right, Doug? And I'm like, yep. He's like, you have two choices. You either own the fact that you got yourself here and be a man and do what you need to to change or go cry in the corner and be a victim and say, what was me? He's like, nobody's coming to rescue you. Nobody's coming to save you.
If anybody's going to do, it's got to be you.
And at that time, the drugs had been out of my system a bit, and I started to think more clearly, and I was like, well, clearly, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I talked about a lot of the stuff that I had done to self destruct my life. I was like, maybe this guy's right, because this guy wasn't my parents. He wasn't, like, a family member, so he had no skin in the game as far as my life. So it motivated me to at least give this exercise thing a try and got down to do a push up. Couldn't do a push up. Couldn't even do one for my knees. Could barely walk away down the steps in there because I was also smoking cigarettes before I went to jail. And with his motivation and encouragement training me in there, every single day during my 90 day sentence, I was able to not only do a set of ten push ups by the time my sentence was over, but also run a mile, which was a huge deal for me because I'd never been in shape in my entire life.
To me, back then, doing ten push ups would have felt like today, me doing like, 100 miles race, it would have been something that was like, I may happen, but not for a really.
[00:29:25] Speaker C: Long time, and I'll probably fail out before I actually get to that time.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: Right?
[00:29:29] Speaker C: So what's worth talking about?
[00:29:31] Speaker A: Exactly. But those few months in jail and Eric training me as his name, training me in there, just taught me so much that has shaped me for the rest of my life, whether it be the importance of taking responsibility no matter what, being accountable, not falling into the victim mindset, getting comfortable, being uncomfortable, developing self discipline, showing up for yourself even when it's challenging, the importance of compounding habits and choices and small wins and stuff like that. And the day I left jail, I cried because I just didn't want to leave. And I was like, how am I? I was like, up until this point, I failed in every part of my life. And the only difference is I've been in this detention center with this guy who's trained me and looked out for me and been a mentor of mine. What am I going to do on the other side of this? And I remember just talking to him, I was like, hey, man, what am I going to do? How can I ever repay you? And he was like, just don't mess up and pay it forward. Like, you know what to do. Gave me a workout plan that I still have framed in my place today, so I don't forget where I came from and then got out, stayed on the workout plan that he had given me, got really into fitness, ended up losing a bunch of weight, lost 50 pounds, and then that inspired me to become a personal trainer and now pay it forward and help other people use the gifts that I had been given with fitness to help them transform their lives. And then that's led into a variety of other opportunities for me, because as I started to build my personal training career, I started to find purpose and meaning in life. Didn't touch drugs, didn't do anything to violate my probation, ended up changing my friends, ended up changing my habits, changing the way I ate, changed everything in the following years, and it was time for my probation to be up and ended up going back to court. And the judge, back in January of 2014, took the felony conviction off my record. And gave me that PBJ. And that day, my life changed forever because now I was no longer a convicted felon, and I had the opportunity to do certain things that I couldn't do before. And that really invigorated me to.
That really invigorated me to start to share my story more and write some books. And then that inspired me going on different podcasts and doing different media to share my story to help other people. And then that also became the motivation for starting my own podcast, which kind of brings things full circle. Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: So many questions.
[00:32:05] Speaker C: Ready to explode over here. Go ahead. Why get my brains back together.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's just so unique to me that you were able to transition out of jail and you weren't there for an extreme amount of period. And as far as I know, you never relapse. Right. And I imagine that's pretty rare. How was it that you were just able to stay on? I'm sure it wasn't a linear path, but the straight and narrow and never look back. That, to me, is incredible.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Well, I've talked about this before. I don't know if it was David Goggins. I think it was David Goggins that talks about this, but I could be wrong. So don't quote me on this. That essentially, I think I heard him talk about something to the effect of, it's easy to do all these self help stuff, like self help, like meditation, working out, prayer, all these things when things are really good in your life, but when you're in the thick of it, that's when it really counts. And so I learned all these tools when I was in the thick of adversity, when I was having all these limiting beliefs, when I was having high levels of stress, anxiety. So I think learning them in that state, combined with the fact that I got consistent in doing those things during the few months that I was in jail, combine that with not wanting to let my cellmate down while also not wanting to let myself down because I knew I wanted more for my life. I just think I just had developed this mindset that I was like, all right, I know what works for me now. I know that if I exercise every day, I know that if I eat a certain way, if I think a certain way, if I walk a certain way, et cetera, that I'm going to feel better over time, if I commit to doing that every single day. So I just did that. And then over time, what would happen is it would be like two weeks after jail, and I'm like, wow, I've been two weeks now on my own, without my cellmate, without jail, and I haven't used drugs or I haven't done this. That's awesome. Confidence gets built. Motivation gets built. And then you start compounding that over time. And slowly but surely, you start to get more time under your belt. Cravings really dissipate, and you start to build a lot of self confidence for a few reasons. One, because my life was starting to get better, and two, because I didn't have to rely on a substance or something that was kind of fake to help me feel better about my life, which I had done for years before I went to jail. Does that make sense?
[00:34:25] Speaker B: It makes total sense. And one further question on this. I am obsessed with the topic around addiction, and I very much can relate to super addictive personality. I relate and resonate on so many levels. And what I always think about is that fine line between, it's really where you put that energy. And I have seen so many addicts that were alcoholics or drug addicts that turn their life around, and now they're doing ultramarathons or they've built incredible businesses. And it's just like, I think there is so much power in addicts that other people don't have. It's just where you put that energy, and it seems like you were able to take all that addictive behavior with drugs and just shift it elsewhere, which a lot of people never able to do. But that common thread of there's just some power in addicts, but it's which path do you end up taking?
[00:35:23] Speaker A: Yeah, because if you think about how relentless addicts can be, that's it. Get their fix.
[00:35:29] Speaker C: Whatever it takes.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: Literally, whatever it takes.
[00:35:31] Speaker C: I want to ask a question. So you said that you didn't have any cravings. I think I had had this mindset, or maybe even a made up story that there is this sickness called addiction, and despite your best efforts, it'll always be there. So did you have cravings, or did you ever teeter on going back? Or were you really just done with it and meaning that there wasn't necessarily this chemical aspect, addiction to what you were doing versus just numbing. Not to downplay it, but did you really have it? Do you feel like you had a chemical addiction prior to that, or you just needed something different to get around or to motivate?
[00:36:14] Speaker A: For me, it was very situational and environmental, but I think maybe over time, it changed my brain chemistry for sure. Maybe you can call it like some sort of disease because of that but I don't think I was born biologically with being addicted. I think that because of my childhood and what I went through, I just needed something to escape all the pain.
And then when I was in jail and things started to change for me, I found this hope and self confidence and just new way of thinking about myself that I'd never had before. So I was completely different. And I was like, I don't ever want to go back to the person that I was because the person that I was was incredibly miserable and just self destructive and didn't want to live much longer than I needed to or whatever, and I just didn't want to be in that situation anymore.
There's a difference between craving and stress and emotional pain and discomfort. I never craved snorting a pill when I got out of jail, but I certainly had discomfort. I certainly had stress, I certainly had anxiety. And I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions for people when they get sober or they get in a recovery, is, oh, I'm just going to push these drugs away or push the alcohol wherever it is they're using. And all my problems are going to go away. Well, no. Now the real work starts because now you got to learn new coping mechanisms. You got to deal with a lot of the pain from your past or pain that you've created was a result of your addiction, and you got to learn how to navigate life. And so my brain just kind of changed. Where before I went to jail, it was like if I got stressed out or if I got anxious or if somebody made fun of me, it was like, do a drug to feel better. But now it was like, where can I find some space to run? Where can I do some push ups? Where can I do this or that? So it was just a much healthier path and response to that. And then I think that your environment can create a false sense of normalcy. And all the kids that I was hanging out with back in the day, they were all doing the same thing that I was doing. So I thought it was normal to live the life that I was leading. But once I started to make these shifts that I've mentioned, hanging out with my old friends felt like being on an awkward first date where you just didn't have much to talk about. There just was nothing there. And so over time, I just had to make these really, really tough decisions, especially when I was in my early twenty s, to walk away from my friends that weren't necessarily bad people at all, but they were just not making the choices that were in line with where I needed to go in my life. I think I would have been dead had I continued down that path. And so starting to develop new friendships, new relationships, a better relationship with myself, all of that really helped me just continue to move forward in my life without going to meetings, without going to treatment, without doing any of that stuff.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that idea of your book where you talk about people going through recovery and just the various journeys people took and the various coping mechanisms. I think that's super helpful because so many people look at, I've got to follow this trajectory to be successful. But you opening people's eyes to, no, listen, everybody's got their own journey and is able to accomplish and get through in different ways is really enlightening. And that's one thing I was telling Mick before you got here, that the common thread through, I've watched a lot of interviews you've done is that you are very gracious, like gratitude and this honor to serve mentality. And it is very clear, I mean, so many people say, listen, I'm here to help people. You're like, no, you're not. You're here for the dollar, we all know it. But you're true to that. And it shines through in everything you do for me, amongst everything you've accomplished, I think being able to maintain that mentality is the most impressive thing about you. And everything you do really does serve people in so many ways. So I just wanted to make sure I told you that because it's special and it's very obvious.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Thank you. It's tough because it's like the more, I guess, notable you become, the bigger brand you build. And as things start to grow, it becomes harder to answer DMs or it becomes harder to do certain things. But I always have a level of service crafted in, into my business and what I do and also just with even how I handle relationships with my friends. Once you're a friend of mine, you're a friend. I'm there for you no matter what, right? Or just somebody needs help or somebody needs something, somebody needs an introduction to somebody or whatever. I'm always trying to do whatever I can to help that person because I never wanted to. And by no means am I famous, because I want to make that clear. But I always told myself that if this all works out and I start to build a brand and I start to really start to make something of this, I never want to forget where I came from, ever. And that's one of the big reasons I keep the workout plan on my bookshelf, because I don't ever want to wake up and think that I'm better than anybody, because I'm not. I just do things maybe a little bit differently. And I promised my cellmate that I would pay it forward and I would keep helping people. And so I just do my absolute best to do that, because it's easy, like, when things compound in a good way in your life, it's easy to forget that, and it's easy for your head to get so big you can't walk into a room anymore. I don't want to do that because that's very off putting to people. Right. I mean, it's like, nobody wants to be around people like that. And so I've done my absolute best to stay far removed from anything like that.
[00:41:38] Speaker C: And also, too, I know when you got out. When you got out of jail, how'd you get back on your mean? Because certainly Eric had a big, but you have to start over, you know? I mean, and it sounds like your relationship with your parents wasn't that great. You didn't have a place to go, right? You didn't have a safe place. So what did you do? Or who helped you give you a hand up?
[00:42:02] Speaker A: So, my grandparents have been my saving grace throughout my whole life.
And when I got out of jail, they took me in, and I'm very thankful for that, because years before that, I had lived with them. After I had that massive panic attack that I talked about, and I ended up not being able to stay with that one friend's house anymore. I lived there, but I acted like a jerk when I lived there. Just selling drugs, doing drugs, just, like, living like a complete menace. So I ended up leaving there, ended up getting a place on my own with a few friends of mine.
But after jail, my mindset, like I said, was completely different. I was ready to do this, and they made me a deal. They're like, you can stay here. We'll help you get back on your feet. But the deal is that we won't charge you rent. We won't charge you money for food. We'll give you money for gas or whatever you need. But you got to exercise. You got to take care of yourself while you're here. You got to get a job. You have to keep things clean. You got to be honest with us. You got to bring us receipts if we give you money. And if you violate any of that, you're out. And so it was this perfect balance of love and accountability.
I always knew they cared about me. That was never an issue. But they showed me love and being like, hey, we understand you're going through a hard time, and we understand that you're broke, have no money, and it's going to be hard for you to get a job for a bit because you're a felon. So I'm going to give you this safe space to stay in for a while. We're not going to charge you money, but you have to have skin in the game, too. You're going to take care of yourself. You're going to use this as a way to continue to reinvent yourself and improve. And if you don't, you're out. And so it did a couple of things for me. I mean, it helped me, again, reinforce the discipline and the accountability and all that stuff, but it also helped me get much closer to them. I was already close to them. I'm way closer to my grandparents than I am to either one of my parents.
With that, I would be there by myself when I started to change my friends and stuff. I would just stay there by myself and watch the food network or dancing with the stars with them and just kind of sit there. And not only did I reinforce the love that I had with them for that, it would help me kind of reinforce the love that I had for myself and what I wanted out of my life, because now I was trapped by myself. And that was one of the hardest things for me, even growing up, was I was afraid of being alone because I felt like if I was alone, I was a loser or I felt like I always needed this validation and attention from others, no matter what that looked like. And I think that's something that traps people, is they feel like if they're by themselves, it means that they're like some sort of failure. And what I can personally say is that you feel way more alone spending time with the wrong people than you ever will. Like, intentionally spending time by yourself.
[00:44:56] Speaker C: Right.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: So when I was spending time by myself, it really forced me to get comfortable with that. And then also just think about, okay, what do I value in my life? Who do I want to become? What types of people do I want? Where can I improve? How can I get better at X, Y and Z? And so that time with them really helped me get back on my feet. And I'm just forever indebted to them for allowing me that, to allow me to do that.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: I think that difference you just sit on is the difference between being alone and being lonely.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:45:26] Speaker C: Right. How do you learn to be alone without being lonely. And it sounds like that's something you mastered along the way, is how to be alone without feeling loneliness, which is a really tough emotion.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: It is. And I think so many people struggle with it now because everybody wants to have the friend group or they want to be in the relationship or whatever the example is, and they will sacrifice their own values, self esteem, whatever, just for the sake of being with somebody else, even if that person is mean to them or treats them poorly or doesn't meet their emotional needs. And I learned early on to not fall into that trap. Not that I've been perfect with it, but I've certainly way better than I would have been had I have not learned that. And I just think there's no better mechanism for self improvement than spending time by yourself just to gather your thoughts, gather what you want in your life, and to be able just to just know that you're okay, you love yourself for who you are, and there's nothing wrong with you spending time with that person.
[00:46:27] Speaker C: Yeah, and what a great moment, too. So the plant that we walk through today, we have a very large population of reentry. A lot of the guys in our plant have been incarcerated, done some time generally for selling drugs. They were running a business trying to survive in Baltimore City. And that moment we just talked about is where a lot of recidivism kicks in. Right where here you are, you've got to re acclimate, you have to reengage in society, and you don't necessarily have those tools.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: Right?
[00:46:52] Speaker C: Or you don't have a grandparent that will give you just a leg up. And could be that your only option in that moment is to go back to the streets and go back to the only way, you know, to survive and to make money and feed yourself and maybe siblings and maybe family is back to the drug trade. And that recidivism, I think that moment, that exact moment, it could be a really big fork in the road as it relates to recidivism in coming out of the prison system.
[00:47:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Because people just don't know what to do. Right. They're so used to this other life that everything else kind of seems very challenging and scary. And again, it all comes back to the environment. It's like sometimes people just come out of and they go into a different place. And this doesn't feel normal to me. I think I'm going to go back to where it's comfortable. And I think that if people are in that situation, just know that it's normal to feel uncomfortable and putting yourself in a new environment. But over time, as that starts to compound, you start to spend time with different people, you start to change your habits and better yourself. You will end up creating a new version of yourself and hence a new normal, that it won't be as comfortable as uncomfortable to be yourself in that environment, if that makes sense.
[00:48:01] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it does. And I think that judge gave you a hell of a gift because the other thing, too, right? Coming out with a felony, which is like a scarlet letter, too, right? So you're trying to re acclimate into society and you've got this big f on your shirt, right, everywhere you go, and you got to check boxes on applications. And just another challenge to getting re acclimated and just making it that much more attractive, potentially to go back to where you are comfortable and what, you know, despite being such a tough heart, bad choice. I understand why that would be an easier choice, for sure.
[00:48:31] Speaker B: But I have a question for you. I mean, your grandparents helped you a lot, but there's a lot of people that get out of jail and do have a helping hand. So a lot of this comes back to you and what you did. And I know self development and working on that has been a big part of your journey. I've heard you say it. What did you do to develop yourself during that period? You had a helping hand, but there was more you did. You looked inside and you worked on yourself. What were those specific things that you worked on during that period that have helped you get here?
[00:49:04] Speaker A: I think fitness is a big part of it. I mean, I feel like whenever somebody's looking to completely transform their lives, there's no better way, in my opinion, than to start working out. And then because outside of the physical benefits that it gives you. Let me think about it. Fitness gives you the ability to practice getting comfortable, being uncomfortable, develop self discipline, great community stress management, helps you with your sleep, helps you manage your mental health. It helps build self confidence, self esteem. It helps you be forward focused and goal oriented, like all these things, right? And all of that is crucial for reinventing your life, is just focusing on all of that. So that was a huge part of it because all of that, because I felt unconfident, because of the way I looked and the way I felt about myself. Well, fitness helped fix a lot of that, right? And I didn't know what my purpose was going to be or have any meaning in my life. Well, fitness helped fix that because that allowed me to get inspired to become a personal trainer. So fitness became a big thing, the people I spent time with became a huge asset for was when I just became a personal trainer. I ended up going to this mentorship out in San Diego with this guy, Tod Durkin, who was like a very well respected personal trainer in the fitness industry and trained a lot of professional athletes. And when I went out there, I thought I was going to learn about how to teach my clients how to do a better lunge or push up or whatever. But it was all like life stuff. It was like, okay, what are the five things you want to get done this year? What are the five things you want to get done for the rest of your life? What is your statement you want to be remembered by if you die? Like, all these things that I had never thought about in my thought about in my entire life, but it forced me to work on myself and to develop myself by thinking about these things. So having mentors in my life, people like Todd, Tim, Rody, I know you guys both know as well, has been a big mentor of our day. I met him and his wife Liz from working at the Mac, and they gave me a chance when I started working there. So mentors have been important. I talked about friendships and why that's been an important thing. But outside of that, a big thing for me has been my faith and becoming a Christian. And I say that because we were talking earlier in the conversation about how I was looking for love in all the wrong places. Even after I got out of jail, like I told you, I got super fit. I was successful getting attention from pretty girls, but I still wasn't happy with myself because I still hadn't forgiven my parents, I still hadn't forgiven people in my past, hadn't forgiven myself, had a lot of resentment built up. And one of my clients was a pastor at a nondenominational church. And he was like, you're going to start coming. He's like, I want you to start coming to church with me. And I was just like, there's no way. Are you serious? I hated God. I hated everything about God. I was like, if God is real, why did all this bad stuff happen to me? I'm like, all right, well, I've already done all these horrible things. I'm definitely going to hell. What's the point of even believing in God?
And then after a slew of events, I finally got to a place. I was like, man, something's got to give. I wasn't doing anything illegal or doing drugs or whatever, but I was like, I'm just not happy. And I decided to give this Christianity and God thing a try. Ended up going to his office one day and giving my life to Jesus. And that changed things for me because I felt the same weight come off my back that I did when I was doing drugs where I was, man. Like, there was purpose in my pain. I might not have been happy with what I've done, but God was, because he's now using it as a mechanism to help so many other people. And it taught me the importance of just forgiveness and letting go of the past in order to become new and started to forgive my family and started to forgive myself. And that really just changed things for me. Then I also started to go to therapy because I couldn't figure out why I was still holding on to a lot of this mental health stuff, why I was still feeling anxious and stressed in my 20s, even though my life was good. I was like, I'm making great money. I'm making a difference in the world. I'm very fit. I got all these things.
[00:53:19] Speaker C: This is everything I've been aspiring to forever. Now. What the hell? Why don't I feel amazing, right?
[00:53:24] Speaker A: My therapist asked me, like, a really tough question. She's like, well, how did you grow up? And at this point, I already talked to her about the divorce and everything. And I'm like, I don't want to rehash that. She's like, no. What was your environment? Was it stressful? I was like, yeah. And she's like, your body is used to stress, so now you're going to create stress even if you don't have any. That clicked for me, and I was.
[00:53:43] Speaker C: Like, we get it. We totally get it.
[00:53:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So then I was like, okay, how can I work on that? So I started to develop some tools to work on that, create some opportunities to reframe how I saw stress in my life. And then things started to change for me. So it was just a compilation of all the things. It was fitness, who I spent time with, mentors, spirituality, being of service. Like, sharing my story has been huge for me.
And also networking has been great, too.
[00:54:11] Speaker B: Sharing your story.
I have only a few words, and one of them is storytelling on here, because you're so fantastic at storytelling.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: And I imagine you've developed that over time.
I think storytelling is just such an. People that can storytell have an upper leg.
It's just reality. How did you develop that? I mean, that your ability to tell your story, because, again, people have walked a similar path that don't have a podcast, aren't writing books, and you've managed to really develop that skill. How have you done that?
[00:54:46] Speaker A: Just like anything else, just practice.
[00:54:47] Speaker B: Practice.
[00:54:48] Speaker A: I mean, I've been sharing my story for probably over ten years. I think it started when I think it was the Baltimore sun or the Towson Times, if you can remember. The Towson Times, yes. Did a story on me and what I had gone through. And then I was also helping a client lose a bunch of weight. And I think I forget when that was, but I also then just did a bunch of local media. Like, I did a lot of stuff for WBAL, WJZ and stuff, which got me comfortable on camera. And then from there, started to share my story on different podcasts to, again, get the reps in, and then started to share my story on more national media stuff and more bigger podcasts and stuff. And then over time, you just get better and you just start to say, like, okay, I shouldn't have said it that way. Or what are the things that are important? What's not important, what's relatable? What's not relatable, because I think that's just things that I've been able to learn is like just anything else. You just go back and you listen to the tape and say, okay, what could I have done better? How can I have improved? And then just through all of that, I've just been able to hone it in and get really good at just telling a great story while also trying to keep it somewhat succinct. Because there's a lot of depth to my story. And I tell the backstory just for relatability, because not everybody can relate to going to jail, but a lot of people can relate to the bullying or not fitting in or not being gifted at sports, even. They like sports or stuff with relationships or divorce or whatever it is. Because I think people misunderstand why people use drugs in the first place. I think some people think that they just hate their life, so they're just going to self destruct completely. And while some of that is true, a lot of it is just a mechanism just to manage pain from an emotional and mental level. But, yeah, I appreciate the kind words. I mean, storytelling is just like anything else. It's like you just got to practice.
[00:56:47] Speaker C: So you mentioned, I think it was Tim Durkin that you said was the guy, Tod Durkin.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: So I also went to California and did a training under him, like, many, many years. Yeah, yeah. Great.
[00:56:57] Speaker C: The interesting part of that is you said you thought you were going out there to learn how to do a lunge and whatever. But instead it was the brain coaching. Right. It was the brain coach component. And then I was going to ask you if you ultimately evolved into psychology, right. Or a psychologist or someone that you could talk to. And you said something interesting, just that until the religious, and I think you talked more about faith and religion. You're very interesting in how you position that part. Right. There's nothing that has.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: I'm not religious. Yeah.
[00:57:24] Speaker C: It doesn't spiritual and it doesn't have a God squad feel to it.
[00:57:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:28] Speaker C: Which would be further in that direction. But the fact that you couldn't get to that forgiveness of your parents or your mom or your dad without that component. Talk about that for a second.
[00:57:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:41] Speaker C: That seems like the pivotal moment where, when you found God, that you were able to bridge that into the forgiveness part of your parents and some of the things that you struggled with as a child.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: One of the big things that people appreciate about God is forgiveness is doing things wrong and knowing that they can go to something greater than them and ask for forgiveness. And I felt like a fraud that I was asking for forgiveness, but I wasn't forgiving other people. And I also was learning just through stuff in the self help space and therapy and stuff that if I wanted a healthy relationship with a woman in my life or I wanted a healthy relationship with friends in my life, that if I didn't have a healthier, healthier relationship with my parents and I still had resentment there, that that was going to limit me in some way.
I started to really just think about all of that. And at this point, I had worked on myself so much that my mom and my dad had both seen that I was changing, but it was more just about who was going to let their guard down first.
And with me and my mom, we just started having more conversations about it. We ended up going to dinner one night and she just asked me, she's like, what do you think I could have done differently? And I'm at a place now. I don't blame my parents for everything. I mean, sure, there's things that I think happened that contributed to some of what I did, but I don't blame them for my shortcomings completely. Right.
And I remember I just said to my mom, like, listen, I think you did the best you could with what you had. I just wish you would have asked me why, why I was doing what I was doing. Because there was a deep amount of emotional pain that I was going through that helped create a bridge for us to have more dialogue around that, and then spend more time together, hug it out, forgive each other, say we were sorry. My dad and I.
My dad and I are much better than we used to be.
We've always had differences in opinion, but the difference now is like, I've completely forgiven him for the way that I feel, for the things that I felt like he did growing up and just gotten to a place now where it's like, you have two choices, right? When it comes to stuff like this, you can either just set a permanent boundary and not speak to somebody, or you can say, okay, I'm going to do the best that I can accept this person for who they are, even if I don't agree with them. I'm sure he sees me and he's like, I don't agree with what he's doing or whatever. And so I just think that was an important thing for me because I had to let all of that go. And it started with my relationship with God and also just seeing how much better my life got when I started to forgive other people and started to have compassion for people and starting to just learn more about psychology and learning more about trauma and stuff and just being able to understand, like, oh, when people are treating people a certain way, they must be going through something or they must not have the tools, because the other thing that sometimes gets lost is our parents generation. They didn't talk about this stuff.
[01:00:47] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[01:00:48] Speaker A: And now we've gone. The pendulum has swung completely the other way, where it's now, like, I think at times can be over talked about. Right? Yes, agree.
And so there's that as well, where it just wasn't normal to have these hard conversations. And also, I think it's tough, and I'm not a parent, but I've trained enough parents over the years to understand some level of it, that I think it can be hard for parents to have conversations because it makes them feel like a failure.
Even though, like I said, did divorce impact me? Of course it did. But was it the main thing that destructed my life? No.
So with all of that said, I think just forgiving my parents and forgiving myself just created this whole new meaning for me in my life. And that it allowed me to show up around my family without that weird energy that I would have before when I was just looking at them and having this crazy amounts of angst and resentment towards them. Because it's easy to have this thing that you can just blame for all your problems. And I did that with my parents for a lot of my life where I was just like, okay because I had this horrible childhood that I thought that I had, I can now behave like a jerk for the rest of my life, and I'm going to be okay with it because of what happened in my past.
And the other thing is that.
[01:02:12] Speaker C: It.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: Just really helped unlock different relationships for me. I was able to be more comfortable around other people where I wasn't necessarily looking for attention in all the wrong places anymore because I had some now love now from my parents. Again, it was a journey. I mean, the hardest thing I think, though, for me to actually get over is this level of cognitive dissonance I had. And I say that because I was bullied for so long as a kid and I was told that I was all these things and rightful, in a way, I was overweight and I was a piece of crap growing up and I did act a certain way. So some of that I knew to be true. But what was challenging was when I got to a place, fitness wise, where I was fit, lost a bunch of weight, I was getting compliments that I was attractive, or people told me for a while that I looked like that actor Mark Wahlberg. And a lot of it I didn't believe because I was just like, are they insulting me? Or. I still saw the old me in the mirror. But the forgiveness, letting go of the resentments, learning to love myself internally over time helped subside all that. Does that make sense?
[01:03:23] Speaker B: It does. And one thing Mickey, you asked was about superpowers earlier, and I think that is part of your superpower is just not having that ego in letting your vulnerability, in being open and being empathetic. I think that's definitely part of your story. And in my opinion, why you've created what you have.
[01:03:45] Speaker C: Yeah. And a lot of what you say resonates with me. So do you think you've gotten to that part? So I, too, have a brain coach that I don't see quite as much as I used two years ago. But we would talk about this idea of the reset, right, where you have to reset, talking about me in this moment, but where I had to learn to reset because I went through any number of the same things that you did, whether it was being overweight. And she would have to remind me. Mick, the people that you're meeting today don't know 15 year old Mick Arnold. So you have to reset, and you have to be careful about saying certain things that just don't make any sense to them because they didn't know 15 year old Mick. So have you gotten to that point where you've got the reset where if someone says, you look great, you don't think they're kidding anymore, you actually believe them, and you can actually take that in and be as happy about as you should, right? I mean, not egomaniac or anything, but. Oh, thank you. What a nice compliment. I do work hard at this and I appreciate it.
[01:04:38] Speaker A: Right.
[01:04:38] Speaker C: Something as similar to that. Have you gotten to the reset?
[01:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I've been there probably for maybe ten years. I mean, a lot of it happened again after I became a Christian. I started to do some intense work, and I started to just see. I mean, it really came down to me, like, writing things down on paper. I was like, okay, the old version of me, what was I doing? What were my habits like? Who was I spending time with? What was I doing career wise? And then it was like, well, what am I doing now? I could see I'm a completely different person. I look completely different.
There has to be some level of difference physically because I went from wearing a size, like 38 pants, and now I'm wearing like a 30 or whatever and I have abs and all these things. So I was like, oh, I think these people are actually telling me the truth. But now it's like, yeah, people reach out to me frequently and not about my. I mean, people do compliment me on my parents, but I would say most of what I get now is about the podcast or about my story or about something that I've done to help inspire them.
It all feels real, and it's humbling because I never thought that I would be in the position that I'm at now where I'm able to share like I can. And I talk about this a lot.
All of what I went through built my character, because even before I was doing drugs and selling drugs, I wasn't this confident. I wasn't very well spoken. I wasn't a big extrovert. I didn't have the people skills that I have now. But going through what I went through built all this for me. So there's a lot that I just. I mean, I wouldn't. There's so many things I just wouldn't change about what I went through because of how it's formed me. Now, the challenge is not letting it get to your head. Not that I'm not an egomaniac by any means, but sometimes when you get a bunch of accolades or you get, so I achieve something big, it's like, okay, can I let off the gas for a little bit? But it's like this weird balance of, like, okay, take some time to celebrate, but keep your foot on the gas a little bit so that you don't get stale. Yeah.
[01:06:38] Speaker C: Again, all these things make a lot of sense to us. That idea of taking time to celebrate, right. And not moving past the winds with not acknowledging them but also not being complacent would be something that could sneak in if you're not careful. So, yeah, that's all very close to home for us and very real, for sure.
[01:06:57] Speaker B: Now, I do want to get in because we said we were going to. I do want to get into the business piece. And Mick made earlier in the day, we were talking before he got here, and he made an observation that I was like, yeah, I think this is true. So, just in listening to interviews, you've talked about your fitness business and writing books and podcasts and speaking everything you do, and it's always about helping people, but you never actually lead out with, like, this is my business. Right. Like, you're doing all these things, but clearly you've built a hell of a business.
[01:07:30] Speaker C: Yeah, you're a small businessman.
[01:07:32] Speaker B: Exactly.
[01:07:33] Speaker C: Which we speak to small business people on our podcast. So that's awesome.
[01:07:37] Speaker B: You centered your life around faith, family, and fitness, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to being able to build a business from that. So how did you create that, and what is your business as a whole? Because you do so many things.
[01:07:52] Speaker A: Well, it's definitely changed over the years. I mean, I would say it started with me being a personal trainer and making essentially 100% of my money through that and then having that business, and then that evolved into me doing public speaking, where I would get paid to do speaking events. And then I was also consulting with other personal trainers and helping them build their business. And then as time went on and I started to build the podcast, I honestly just started the podcast because I liked talking to people. I'd built some great relationships through being on other people's podcasts, and I saw the impact that was making that. I was just like, all right, well, I'll just start mine and see where it goes.
[01:08:26] Speaker B: How long ago was that?
[01:08:28] Speaker A: About four years ago.
[01:08:29] Speaker B: Four years ago. Okay. Wow, you really built it.
[01:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And so things have grown slowly but surely. So I would say now my biggest revenue source is the podcast.
And then I have other spokes that I work on. I still have a handful of clients. Personal training wise, one of the things I want to do more of this year is motivational speaking and public speaking. I've done it in the past a lot, whether it be, I mean, I've done a lot of corporate stuff and stuff at schools, universities. It's just finding the time to do the outreach that I think has been the most challenging thing for me because the podcast can be a lot of work at times and I love doing it. So I want to get more into public speaking.
Also have done some consulting, which I did a decent amount last year, where I would help people with branding and media stuff.
Not necessarily as a publicist, but more like people were coming to me and like, hey, you've really built a great career out of sharing your story and having the podcast. I want to do more of that. How can I do it? So just doing some consulting with people about how they can not exactly replicate what I've done, but help see in them parts of their story and parts of their business that they can help grow and be able to build a platform around. So that was a smaller but bigger part of what I did last year. And then the main thing that I want to focus on, though, this year is doing more motivational speaking.
I want to have four buckets of revenue. We have the podcast, then I got training because I still like to train people speaking. And then the consulting side of things is kind of where I see myself in the next couple of years. Just so that way I'm pretty well diversified. All of them feed into each other like podcasts. Talk about fitness. When I'm training my clients, I'm sharing a lot of the stuff that I'm learning from the podcast speaking. I mean, it all kind of comes.
[01:10:25] Speaker C: Together full circle now.
[01:10:28] Speaker B: Are you a one man team? Have you hired people?
[01:10:32] Speaker A: I have people who are independent contractors that work for me. I have a producer that helps produce and edit the podcast.
I have somebody that helps me with some administrative stuff, but essentially, I'm a one man person. I mean, there's been times where I've made big investments. Like the biggest investment I made was back at the end of 2018 when the drug epidemic. I mean, it's still bad now, but it was being talked about way more, I think, back then, and I had done a lot of local press, I'd done some smaller podcasts, and I got connected to this guy Marlin, who's now a good friend of mine and was my publicist back then. And I ended up putting all my chips in the center of the table and pulled money out of my retirement, which is like a no no right for most traditional people. They say, for me, when you're an entrepreneur, that is, your retirement is like how you're going to build your business, to be able to scale it and stuff like that. So I just believed in myself enough, believed in the story that I took a big chunk out of my retirement, invested in PR, and then that led to Today show coming and spending a couple of two days with me and then doing like a video about my story, which led into some other really cool opportunities for me. And so I just think that what I've learned is I always bet on myself.
I'm confident with my back against the wall, and I just know that no matter what, I'll figure things out. And so have I made some bad investments? Yeah, I have. But I think mostly, I think I've made some really good investments in my business. I've trusted myself. I have a lot of people that I go to for advice, mentors and stuff to make sure that I'm not doing anything super wild.
But, yeah, a lot of the stuff that I've invested in has been more like independent contractor, like one off type things. Not necessarily like hiring a full on team.
[01:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah. So personal life, girlfriends.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: Wives, plural? Whatever you're into wives.
[01:12:41] Speaker C: Good point. I should say wife. I totally blew that.
[01:12:44] Speaker B: Hey.
[01:12:45] Speaker C: Totally blew that. Hey, we don't judge here. That's a good point.
I only say just coming full circle to as the kid that struggled with females and I was the same kid, so I completely get it. Where are you now?
[01:12:58] Speaker A: I mean, I'm single. I've been single for a couple of years. I'm dating just in general, hoping to find the right person.
[01:13:06] Speaker B: Open to it.
[01:13:07] Speaker A: Open to it, for sure, yeah.
[01:13:09] Speaker C: It comes back to that alignment piece.
[01:13:10] Speaker A: Right.
[01:13:11] Speaker C: So having been through a divorce and not always gotten it right, that alignment piece, I think is the challenge. And you're at an interesting point in your life. So busy, limited bandwidth. I was exactly in that space when I met Britt. She was in the exact same space, which was amazing. She didn't think she had enough bandwidth for a relationship, and mysteriously, we both did. So I completely understand that alignment side. I imagine the demands of your time are incredibly high and tough to have all the room in the world for everything, right?
[01:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm super intentional with it. I mean, not intentional necessarily where I'm like, okay, I'm telling somebody I want to marry you. Right. It's more like intentional with my time where if I'm not, like, if I don't feel any kind of interest or if I don't feel any kind of connection, initially, I don't really waste my time going out with that person just because I don't have the emotional capacity or the bandwidth. But if it's somebody that I can see something developing or I could see a future with, then, yeah, I definitely am committed to allocating the time necessary to build that. But I'm so different now where because of a lot of the work that I've done on myself, I don't need to go out and just a date to date. I just don't need it.
[01:14:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, too, I imagine it's easier to recognize the alignment or lack of quicker. Right. As you're meeting people. Not that you just broadbrush. You think you know exactly who that person is, but you know who you are.
[01:14:28] Speaker A: Right.
[01:14:28] Speaker C: And it's easier to be efficient in spending your time, picking your time, choosing your time, because you know who you are and what you're generally attracted to.
[01:14:37] Speaker A: Right. And it's tough because my life is very public, so it's finding somebody that is okay with that, that's aligned with that. Because I can understand why people wouldn't be okay with it. Right. Especially somebody who's not used to that.
And so, yeah, that's been one of the biggest challenges is that. And then also I need somebody who's into personal development, self help, not in an addictive way, but just somebody that's forward thinking, wants to build a relationship, wants to work on themselves, and just understands all that because that's the world that I'm in, and that's a big passion of mine, too. So if they're not into that themselves, then I just don't think that we're going to align long term. Yeah.
[01:15:17] Speaker C: This is not going to be an opposites attract moment, right? Yeah.
It's going to be more what we talk about. One plus one equals five or six or seven. Right.
I think. Yeah, that's what right looks like to us, too. So that makes a lot of sense. And I could see that. So it could take a second, but it's there.
[01:15:33] Speaker B: So selfishly. I have to ask one more question. As we're new at the podcasting game, we're starting to enjoy it, and you're light years ahead of us in every way.
What is it that has helped develop your podcast, and what do you love about it the most from these four years?
We are taking notes from you and what you've done. So any advice or would be we love.
[01:16:00] Speaker A: I think the things that are the benefits from mean, outside of sharing the stories and helping my listeners and people who watch my stuff on YouTube, et cetera. It's just the relationships that I've built through people, through having people on the podcast, like a lot of people have come on the show, are now good friends of mine.
I think there's just also this constant self discovery process that happens with me where I'm constantly learning about different themes of life that I'm interested in, whether it be wellness, relationships, mental health, addiction, neuroscience, spirituality, whatever. I'm learning constantly. So I'm able to, instead of just reading books all the time, I'm having these conversations with some of the smartest people in the world in that theme of life or whatever. So that's really been helpful. And then also, it's just like it's gotten me really good, especially over the last four years, at trusting the process and just continuing to show up and work hard, even if the instant results aren't there.
Because that's life, right? I think that's like anything. It's like you're not going to build a long lasting relationship in three days. You're not going to build the body of your dreams in three weeks. You're not going to do any. These things take time. And so that's really helped reinforce that for me. I would say the biggest things that have helped me build the show are to just stay consistent, number one. I mean, I think a lot of podcasts fail shortly after they get started just because they just don't put out episodes.
Just finding out the types of people that I want to serve, finding out the type of audience that I want to really help, and then finding great guests that kind of fit that.
I think networking is an important skill to develop because sometimes you're only one introduction away from somebody whose podcast you want to be on, somebody who you want to have on their show or whatever. So I just think that has been an important skill that I've naturally learned over the years. But I think in the grand scheme of things, it's been like, how can I be consistent? How can I really have a great message to help people? And then how can I separate myself from other podcasts and making people want to click on certain episodes of mine versus other people? And I have to also enjoy it, too. I mean, I've been in situations where I've had guests on through favors or whatever, and it just hasn't been the same for me. So it's like I've been really good lately at just interviewing only people that I'm interested in interviewing because otherwise it's just a weird energy because I want to make sure that I'm as passionate about each and every guest and that way it reflects down to my audience.
[01:18:42] Speaker C: Right. It also is contrived word, right. If you're not into it, even feels a little contrived. Sure, that's a great point. And at some point, I imagine now with some of the traction that you have that getting those guests is, I don't want to use the word easy, but you're more capable, more accomplished of getting those people that you want or how do you identify? I know you have an audience that resonate, that you resonate with and they're attracted to you.
How do you go about finding guests or thinking, oh, this is someone whose ideas would really resonate with my audience and I want to get them in. How does that process happen?
[01:19:18] Speaker A: A couple of things. There's always a list in the back of my mind of people that I've always wanted to have on since I was younger or whatever, like people that I admired or people that inspired me along the journey that was like, oh, this would be cool to have a conversation with them, but I'll see guests on other people's podcasts, or I'll just see somebody pop up and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting story. Or this is a topic I want to talk about more, who's like some of the smartest people in the relationship sector or mental health sector or whatever.
But it's not as easy as you would think because now as I'm getting bigger and bigger guests, the people that I want now are bigger and bigger and these people are so busy and that everybody wants them. And also they really don't need media, right. So it's like you got to figure out how to separate yourself. I think a lot of people, to be honest, my story is a big selling point because I just think people have a lot of respect for what I've gone through and how that's led to me building what I've built. And they're inspired by that and they're like, oh, this person can, because I've gone through what I've gone through, I can have a deep conversation where it's not just going to be like surface level stuff, but I'm more likely to get bigger guests now than I was, say, two years ago. But it's still challenging because you're climbing the ladder, right. And it's like, now I'm not going after the same guests I was going after two years ago. Now I'm going after much bigger guests, which are getting pulled in many different directions. Some of these people have, like, teams where you got a publicist, you have assistant.
[01:20:45] Speaker B: The political game is always there.
[01:20:49] Speaker A: That's interesting. Wow.
[01:20:51] Speaker C: So what point? Can I ask more questions?
[01:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:20:54] Speaker A: Cool.
[01:20:54] Speaker C: We're not on a time already?
[01:20:55] Speaker A: No, we're good.
[01:20:55] Speaker C: I got last.
Did you recognize at some point that you were going to become a small businessman? I know as a trainer, you're running a small business and you're generally a commissioned employee of a gym. Right. You're taking a percentage of whatever the pay is. Was there a moment where you recognized, I mean, what an ascent from a kid that struggled and all the things that you went through? Was there a moment where you realized, holy hell, I'm a small businessman. Did it ever occur to you, or were you just doing what you were doing and building it out? Any aha. Moments there?
[01:21:26] Speaker A: I think part of the easy answer would be like, I think I developed certain skills in small business when I was selling drugs.
[01:21:32] Speaker C: Heck, yeah, we've got some great businessman out here on the other side of that wall, I promise you.
[01:21:37] Speaker A: But I think a lot of it came down to me just doing the next best thing and just building self confidence. And it was like, oh, I can build a career in a health club. What's next? Oh, I want to make more money. How do I do that? Then it was like going out on my own. Then it was like, okay, I want to expand my business. I want to start speaking and having more of an impact. How do I do that? And so I just slowly started to build and compound these things over time.
I don't even think of myself. I mean, yeah, I own the business or whatever, but I don't think of myself.
I don't pride myself as being like an entrepreneur, so to speak. I mean, that's just not really my message necessarily, because what excites me isn't, like, the building of the business. What excites me is just the brand and helping people and just making a difference. I'm not saying that entrepreneurs can't do that, because they certainly do. But I guess from where did my passion come from? Came from? It came from the making a difference in people's lives, sharing my story, sharing other people's stories and messages. And then over time, that built into a business. Because I think of my not just passion, because I don't think passion alone builds a business. I'm sure you both know that. But also just the dedication, the hard work and commitment to doing that.
[01:22:51] Speaker C: Yeah, totally agree.
[01:22:53] Speaker B: This was amazing, Doug. And unless you have any more, I had one last question.
[01:23:00] Speaker C: I have one last question. You go for it.
[01:23:02] Speaker B: Mine should be the ending question, I think.
[01:23:04] Speaker C: Okay, I got one for you.
[01:23:06] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:23:06] Speaker C: This is a good guy. Hopefully this is going.
What do you think twelve year old Doug would think about where you are now in your biggest despair?
[01:23:17] Speaker A: I think he'd be super impressed and just proud of him for not giving up on himself and being like, man, I can't believe you're still alive. Proud of you and just look what you've accomplished and where you've come from. And never forget. Never forget any of that.
[01:23:33] Speaker B: Okay, that has to be the last question. Done.
[01:23:37] Speaker C: I gave you the opportunity.
That's what I thought. I think sometimes what would twelve year old mix say? So I thought I'd ask somebody else that had a similar background in spots.
[01:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you, Doug. You got it. Really appreciate it.
[01:23:49] Speaker C: What a great story.
[01:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. What a great episode. We could have asked for a better first guest in Doug BOpEs. If you're interested in learning more about him and following his journey, links to all his content will be in the show notes.
[01:24:03] Speaker C: And if you like it, love it, hit that subscribe or follow or button. And if you like the guests, give us a note, tell us that you like what we're doing. We're going to do more of the same. But boy, it really helps to give us some guidance here. If you'll drop us a line and of course hit a subscribe or a follow, we really do appreciate it.
[01:24:18] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:24:23] Speaker A: Welcome to Robney Rodney Tod for the Superstars tonight. Tonight's guest, incredible, credible.
