Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: We run two very, very separate businesses. Not synergistic. Yes, very separate. And there's so many people that come to us and like why don't you and Mick just merge your businesses?
Part of that is like we don't want to. No, we like having those individual leans. But the question is, how do you do that? How have we built our relationship but also main contain those very strong individual identities?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Welcome to Incredible.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Love and Business podcast. I am Britt Arnold, president of Tagler Construction and supply.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: And I'm Mick Arnold, president of Arnold Packaging and Arnold Automation.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: You asked. So we're answering today. The question is, how do you maintain individual identities while also building a very strong collective relationship? We're going to talk about it specifically as it relates to our relationship, but certainly it's applicable to any relationship or friendship or partnership you have in life.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Yeah, and look, it's Valentine's Day, so I think what a great day to have this conversation.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Very appropriate.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Let's do it.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Let's do it. Okay, so this is a great topic, not because we're experts on it, but because of the fact that I have had to work through that and maybe even struggle and challenge myself in our relationship of maintaining an individual identity. And I'll tell you what I mean by that, that might come off as surprising to you because again, this is not something we've ever sat down and talked about.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Well, can I interrupt for a second? Because when people ask me about the podcast, it's amazing how we access our ability to get deep with each other. I mean, if you think about, well.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: We'Re super deep with each other all.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: The time, but when do you sit around for an hour and just dig on a topic?
[00:01:54] Speaker A: On one topic?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So maybe one of the call outs is sit around with your mate and dig in on a topic for 1 hour a week, or at least every other week like we do. It's been amazing for our relationship. So I just wanted to point that out that this lasts long after our hour together is over.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think maintaining individual identity is so important. It's critical in life, but particularly in your intimate relationships, for sure. And before I had met you, I was so independent in every way, shape or form. Started my business by myself, lived on my own for many years.
I did my own thing, but everything I did, if I went to just call it a networking event with thousands of people, or I had a speaking engagement, whatever it was, it was on my own. Not saying I didn't have the support of other people. But I showed up, I did the thing myself, and I became very comfortable with that. And then once you and I met, we've told the story before, but we moved in together four or five months, and we were together every single day from then on. Now it's been almost six, five, six years.
And because we work together, we found ourselves. We work together, we play together, we do everything together.
We were always together. So being able to maintain that identity or that individuality, I should say, became more challenging, because I found at times I wouldn't necessarily want to do the thing by myself. And that's okay.
I think it's absolutely okay to want to do something or more things with somebody else. But I had to make sure that I wasn't turning things down, because I was like, oh, if Nick can't do it, I don't necessarily want to do that thing. And even to the point where you and I do a lot of speaking engagements together, or panels or events, whatever it is, at times, I'll get asked to do it individually for some type of women's event, call it, and I will have to think about it, or we'll turn it down, maybe, because it's not something we can do together. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but it's just something I've noticed. And I have to make sure that I'm always checking in, making sure that I don't get totally lost or wrapped up in everything as a relationship. I'm not articulating that correctly. Right, but you know what I mean.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: I do.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: And you don't have to say I do.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: No, I do. No, I absolutely do. And having come from the same thing, we've talked about this a little bit on the podcast, but I'm not going to assume that everybody listens to every episode, although you should.
Just the idea that me coming out of a relationship and a marriage in the past and going through a very soul searching moment in that period of time when I found myself single and even alone again. Right. I mean, there was definitely parts about being alone, not lonely. There's a very big difference between being alone and being lonely. So I wasn't lonely, but I was definitely alone. And there's lots of new experiences, part of that, and you start to do things on your own. And I had already been doing that. I mean, I've talked about this. If there was anything that didn't work about my past relationship, it's that I was doing 100% of half, and my former wife was doing 100% of half. And then there's a parallel thing that starts. So I was already in that mode a little bit anyway, because I was head down building a business and providing, like, my half was to provide and make sure that there was finances available for education and things that I wanted the girls to be able to participate in. So I was already in that mode anyway, is where I'm going. And then get into actually living by yourself, and as you're going through that process and you start to pick up habits. And the other thing I recognized is that I wanted to move very fast in a very individual and very agile way. And at that moment, in the evolution of the business that really worked. There were things I wanted to leverage, there was things that I wanted to do, and I went head down in a way that was probably even unhealthy in spots 20 hours a day.
But that was great. It was great in that moment to have something to really dig into and invest in versus getting into trouble, right? I mean, any number of people in that situation could turn to drugs or alcohol or things like that. I was so fortunate to have a business that I had unlimited, unfettered access to, and I could take that energy. And fortunately, I was old enough that I knew what to do with it also. So I was able to do that in that moment. But I didn't want to slow down. I didn't want to stop and explain anything to anybody outside of the organization. Organization, fine. But as it relates to a significant other, that was just not something I had time for, or I didn't want any of my bandwidth taken in that direction. I was also sorting a lot of things out, too. But then fast forward to our relationship. Same thing. It was like, oh, my gosh, all the benefits of having a partner and a soulmate, if you like that word, but someone that you really love doing things with, and you're completely aligned around the same things.
The opposites attract thing is definitely not for me. It might be for other people or you complete me, or whatever that part is. And that's amazing. It's just not for me. I mean, it's about that one plus one equals five or six or seven thing, where we are very similar and can align around the same things. So that was unusual and the exact same thing. So, yes, when I say I did understand, I mean, I did, because there's such comfort and joy and all of those emotions in doing that together right where it wasn't. I have to go divide, and we don't have to divide and conquer. And we do. At times we actually will say that. And I think when I'm saying it, it's an attempt to feel good about, feel okay with being away from you for whatever that event is. But it's not my preference. It's definitely not my preference. So, yes, I absolutely get it. And then to take it one step further, I haven't really stopped to think about, or I'm not sure that I ever was worried or contemplated my individuality in those moments. But I do know for a fact that I wasn't as happy without you there as I would be with you there.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: No, I feel the same. And I think what we've been able to do is we have, for the most part. That was more of a statement in the beginning. I had to check myself. But we have managed to build a really strong relationship and also very much so have our individual identities. Part of that is we run two very separate businesses. Not synergistic. Yes, very separate. And there's so many people that come to us and like, why don't you and Mick just merge your businesses?
Part of that is we don't want to. We like having those individual liens.
But the question is, how do you do that? How have we built our relationship but also maintain those very strong individual identities and that work really well together to build a great collective relationship?
One of the things I was going to say is, I think we've been really good at sharing in each other's wins and celebrating our milestones, not only as a couple, but as individuals. And part of it that makes it easy for us. And I say this because I think it's a little easier for us than it may be for other couples in that we don't have to catch each other up after a day or two days or three days. Like, here's what's going on. I know what you're working on real time. If you close a contract or a big bid or get a new customer, I already know the whole backstory. I've been there where if you come home and you're tired at the end of the day and you just don't feel like explaining that whole story to your husband or wife, and then you win, well, they never even knew you were grinding on it for a month, it's a little harder. So we do have that luxury, I guess I would call it. But that piece of it is being able to celebrate your partner's wins, big or small, and genuinely being happy when jealousy and resentment and all of that gets involved. You are screwed. You're screwed. And that is one thing I never had until I met you, was just genuinely wanting something for someone else as much as I wanted it for myself.
And that comes from the security you had in what you were doing, and not in any way, shape, or form feeling any jealousy or competition, other than it was just like, fun, friendly competition and being able to wholeheartedly support me. And it felt like when I won to you, it felt like a win.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: No, it was a win. Right, it is a win.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: So there's something to that. And that was organic and how we both felt immediately, which, again, was brand new to me. Like, I never had that before in a relationship. And I don't know exactly how that came to be, other than maybe we were just older and really secure in what we were doing and had our own things already.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah, but I think the big word that you hit on there is security.
Someone made a great point the other day. You and I have talked about relationships that you have, and people are trying to outdo you or outdoing one another versus just trying to focus on yourself and being excellent. Excellence, I believe, is an internal thing, where success is an external thing. Success is bequeathed upon you by the outside. I think excellence is internal, where you're just striving for excellence. And if you do all the right things and you're not really looking to the left or the right, and you're certainly not trying to stiff arm the person next to you to get them behind you. But I've encountered that a lot in my life.
And the saying that someone said the other day is my candle will burn brighter if I blow yours out. And that's not something that was ever part of our relationship. I mean, I was like, well, if your candle burns bright and my candle burns bright, we got a goddamn bonfire on our hands. Right? That's the way I feel about it is, man, if you burn so bright that you actually catch my shit on bigger fire than it would be by itself, then let's get around the bonfire together. And I think there is a maturity piece of that where it wasn't like we talk about zero sum games. It wasn't like if you were winning, then I was losing. Right? I mean, that's the craziest idea in the world. We talk a lot around here in sports and military analogies. Imagine if the defense rooted against the offense, right? Does that make any sense? Well, no, that doesn't make any sense at all, but it happens in the same way in any number of spots where the offense is better on the defense on a particular day, and they rub in the defensive face and you still lost, right? You both lost. And I'll never understand that mentality, but it's still out there. But as it relates to our relationship, I was past all of that. I'm sure I had. If that is petty, if petty is the word that would describe that behavior. I'm sure I had some very juvenile, immature, petty moments in my life that I outgrew or got through, but I had to build that type of security. I think you showed up with it automatically. Whether it was your success in sports, you generally win. I mean, I don't know how many losses you've had in your life. Some, of course, everybody. But I think by and large, or majority of the time, you win, and that builds a success. We talk about confidence, what sports does in that regard. You have that type of confidence. And as a female, that can be unique. Right? I mean, unfortunately, and as it's the father of three daughters, I can say this. Unfortunately, that trait can take a little longer to develop in females. I have found as coaching and working with females, being married to one, being the father of daughters, that's not something that, at least from the day I met you, there was ever a problem with. Right. It was never the idea that you were trying to outdo me or anything of the sort. And I think that just naturally and organically meshed, and it was never, not one day was that ever a thing. And I think was unusual for both of us, too. And, like, that's really attractive reaction to what I'm doing, and I definitely want to do more of that. And that's how I experienced it.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And it's challenging to find males that are comfortable with that, with a strong female who doesn't necessarily need anything in particular, because I know it's human nature to want to feel needed. That was something you told me in the beginning, like, you had to get used to that.
I don't know how I'm paraphrasing.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: That's right. Go ahead. No, you're going to get used to.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Something like, I don't feel needed.
And that bothers me something. And it had nothing to do with my love for you or how I felt about you. But I've been doing this shit by myself for a long time.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: It was this hyper independence that I had never experienced before.
I don't think I showed up as whiny or needy in that moment.
I think I was having an epiphany and like, holy shit, this is a really unusual experience. And you clearly, or quickly, I should say, put me at ease with, well, no, that's silly. Let me tell you why that thought or that emotion is silly, and here's why. And I was like, okay, well, that's brand new. I'm going to have to get used to that one. What a great thing to have to get used to.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: It was an adjustment for both of us.
But again, I think reiterating the fact that if you celebrate those small wins and each other's goals, we're a very different business. We have a lot of the similar goals. We do a lot of business things together. But I have different things I love to do outside of business. So do you.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. We talk about it here. Right. So you run ultramarathons, which starts at 32 miles, working on, and I try to stand still and sing, and you're good at what you do, and I suck at what I'm doing.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: But even if you, I promise you.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: I suck at my. You can laugh that off. Tommy, stop laughing. It's bullshit. Yes, I'm not very good.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: But my point being, there are going to be things that your spouse or significant other partner comes to you and says, I really want to do this. They're so passionate about it. They want to do it. And you're like, that's ridiculous. And there are so many people that will shut that dream down or that vision, and that is really a hurtful for somebody. So it's going to create resentment. It's going to create potentially where someone's just doing something in secret or hiding it from you and like, okay, that's fine. I'm not even going to tell you about it. Yes, it's so much easier.
I've never understood it unless it's something that's totally reckless and destructive to a relationship.
It's so much easier to support that goal or vision that someone has.
It just makes your relationship so much stronger. And a conversation we've had to have is, I'm not doing this competitively now, but I fully intend to do ultramarathons competitively. And we had a conversation like, this is going to be time and effort, and I can't do it without your support. It is not possible. And it's something I really want to do.
We age, our bodies are capable of so many things in certain time frames. So I know I have a window where I've got to either do this thing or I don't, and then that window is gone.
But those kind of conversations where some of these things do take time and energy and resources. You have to have the conversation. But if you explain it and you communicate, I would hope your partner would be receptive, or you could figure out a way to make it work. But those conversations are important. And I can tell you if you automatically. There were reservations you've had. There are things you've said that we'll have to talk about. But if it was the immediate stiff arm, that would have probably been really.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Hurtful and not played well. If you. I don't know that it should not play well with anybody, but it really wouldn't play well with you.
I learned early on that even if my initial emotion or reaction better than emotion was not to be super happy.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: With what it was, because you're probably not.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Well. No, it's not that. Because your visions are not my visions. Right. We're talking about an individuality. Your visions are not mine. I mean, you could have easily said you want to sing. That's the dumbest goddamn thing I've ever heard. And I would have thought, okay, well, that hurts. But same thing, right? And I would just say the word that we always come back to is compromise. And it's okay, tell me the dream and how do I support. And I'm going to tell you my dream back. And then we could figure out collectively with our bandwidth and our resources, those being time, really not anything. But how do we get everybody what they want? I feel like I spend much of my time. I say this a couple of times a week, in that my answer will be, look, my job is to get everybody what they want, whether it's the girls or you. And I don't mean in a subservient way. I mean connecting wishes with resources with bandwidth, and whether that's customers or whomever. Right? I mean, I just feel like my job is to get those connections made and done and accomplished so that everybody is happier than they would have been or fulfilled, whatever the mission is that moment, than they would have been otherwise.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: It's amazing because I've listened to two separate podcasts. The one is Sally McCray's podcast. She's a phenomenal. She just won, I think it's called like a triple slam or something.
Three consecutive ultra marathons in a row between 100 and 200 miles. That's her specialty. And she has a book now called Choose Strong, which I'm currently reading. And then there's another. It's called Nutty Foodie Fitness podcast, but it's about a female that she's recently got into fitness but she just did really well on triathlons to the point where she's going to worlds and it's her first the world championships. But both of them separately in their podcast were talking about how hard it is to have a partner who supports them in what they're doing because it's so time consuming and it can come off as super selfish and all of these things. Well, Sally's got a husband. They do a podcast together, and they're in business together, so it works out. But, like, initially, those conversations and then the other female was talking about, she's almost quit several times. She has full support from her boyfriend, but from family members have not supported it in a way. And it's just so relatable to think about that and what people will say and put in your head and make you think about these dreams and visions you have. And that's so hard. And I still struggle with that.
If you're someone out there and you're like, I really want to do this thing, but my partner is never going to want to be a part of that.
How do you manage that?
Luckily, you haven't made me choose, or I haven't made you choose. But if you are in a scenario where this is something that you really want to do, you believe in yourself, you know you can do it and you don't have that support, but you love this person. That's really sticky.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: That's hard.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: It's really, really hard.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess you'd have to ask yourself some questions along the way.
I think one of the hardest parts about relationships is that everybody's changing, right? There's this constant dynamic. And I'm not saying they have to be wild or violent, and I think the older you get, that rate of change slows a little bit. Now, I'm not saying you can't wake up one day and just pivot into a completely different direction. That certainly happens, especially if you've been repressing things. There's things you've wanted to do all along and you haven't been able to for whatever reason. Maybe it's a non supportive spouse, maybe it's financial, maybe it's bandwidth. You raised four kids or something, right? And they finally get to an age where they're less dependent upon you and you're given this time back that you haven't had historically and you want to do that. I think I'd be looking at that relationship along the way, and I'd be looking for signals from my partner that if that were to happen, that I would get that support. I'd be looking for little things along the way.
I want to go to the gym on Saturday, pick something, right. I want to start working out again because I've been traveling and building a business and it's important and I've gotten a little out of sorts. Right. And we have a child and I'm just asking you to be with a child for 5 hours when I typically am on Saturday. I'm just making things up. But I would have been looking for milestones or checkpoints along the way that would have said, boy, that's a pretty small ask, right? Versus. I know it takes 5 hours to run 32 miles. I watched you run it on a treadmill, so I can only imagine the training looks similar to that and that I'm going to be alone or doing something else, or maybe my ass will run with you, or I'll run the first ten or I'll bike the second 20 or whatever it is. Right. Those are options for me to engage in something that I can. You don't want to sing, and that's cool. And we could do a duet just so you know. But I certainly can dig in, right?
Maybe this will be sacrificing my individuality, but I'll probably start hopping on the bike for some of that. My knees aren't good enough probably, to run that whole thing, but I can certainly run some and I can bike some. And we wouldn't have to be separate or separated for that. But I'd be looking back to your original question. I think I'd be looking for some milestones along the way. These are all great questions when we talk about the girls and relationships, and I know they don't listen to the podcast at this point, but they do, do they? Well, maybe they do. I don't know if they're closet listeners, if they are, but I mean, part of the cool thing that I love about this is immortalizing some of these conversations that they could listen to because that's what I'm watching for them now, as the father of daughters, what I would like them to see or being able to communicate to them what check ins would look like with their male counterpart. Right. Whoever have interest.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Or female.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Or female. Yeah, at this point, male, but whatever it's going to be.
But yeah. That they're checking in and having seen this along the way, and we talk about the difference between love and possession. That's one that I talk very openly and honestly with them about, the difference between those two and how they can look similar.
You want to know which one you have. Try to go away. Right. And that's something that we experienced early where. I remember early in our relationship when we were together and we were together, but you definitely had this mode where work time was brit time, and there couldn't be a possibility where we would be doing that in the same space, which is pretty funny now, looking back, but long answer. Very long answer. I think I'd be looking for check ins along the way for that support.
But yeah, I can't imagine that would also have a dominance feeling too. Right. Where I get to call the shots on your dreams in the relationship. Right. Or I'm more important or my time is more important. Right. Because you would probably be asking me for time. Right. Support in our situation.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: It's going to be time.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: It's going be to about what I'm talking about. Sure.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: And I think what it all comes back to in listening to you talk and everything in life is that communication. Well, two things I would say, starting with the communication piece. So it's about laying things out.
If I am going on a four mile run on Saturday morning, it's about communicating that maybe a week or two prior, like, listen, this is my plan for Saturday morning, just so you know. And then it's about communication and also about. I don't love the word compromise because compromise almost feels like you're giving something up. That's not how I feel about.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: No, I don't feel that way.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Maybe trade off is the word I'm thinking about. No, the compromise is coming to like a happy middle medium. I understand that.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: But even middle could be 60 40, right? I mean, that's middle.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
Communication and compromise are the two things. So that communication up front, laying it out.
First of all, explaining what your visions and your dreams are. Second of all, talking it through about how you can achieve it with your partner. So it makes both people happy, or at least content.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Fulfilled.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Fulfilled. And then the other part of it is trying to figure out how compromise. Yes. That's not the word I'm looking for. It's trying to collaborate, I think, on it. So, okay, you don't want to run 30, 50 miles, but what can we do to. Maybe it is something we could end up doing together. Like, you could bike it, I could run it. It's just trying to figure out how to get your partner engaged because that's a big part of it. I imagine in a lot of relationship if someone would be disagreeable or not supportive, if they're going to feel like it's them or the thing.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It could have a zero sum feel to it, like we just talked about, right?
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Because if you're doing your thing, that's code for winning, which means I don't get to do my thing.
That would have a zero sum feel.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: To it where it's like, this is my thing and only my thing. For me, it's the opposite. I would love to figure out how it could be more of an experience we could share together and whatever that looks like. We've talked about how crazy your analytical, logistical mind is on the crewing side of things, which you will crush.
I think so much about it is positioning it and truly meaning it when you're positioning, like, look, this is a thing I want to do, but to be able to do this and have the support I really need to figure out a game plan that this can be enjoyable for everybody and also fair. It's not going to be 50 50 a lot of the time in the competitive season of that three or four months while you're training incredibly hard for something. Yeah, it might be some compromise, but then on that offseason, it's like, okay, well, this is a little bit of mixed time now.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: True. Yeah. It could swing 90 ten in spots. Right.
That's okay.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's get into that.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: Well, if we're sliding topics, I do want to finish something, too. I think that here's where that individuality to me is so important. Back to the business world for a second. And this sucks, but it's true, and we've talked about it. It's so important that you maintain your individuality, especially in the business world, because it is not fair. But the second that you and I show up together in the business world, there's this bullshit assumption that I'm pulling your weight or you're there because of me or you're doing something by virtue of anything that has to do with me. And we talk about very openly what resources we share and how we collaborate, and then without question, my business is better with you as a partner and with some oversight, even so far as that word, and you give me the same liberties. But there's nothing that I have to do directly with the success of Tegler. And unfortunately, that's where I am sensitive. And we even get violent at the idea or the notion that my presence or you and I together has really anything to do with success of Tegler. It would have been successful regardless of us meeting and marrying ultimately. But I would tell you that without question, Arnold packaging is better because you're around and I have you as a collaborator. And I think you feel the same way about Tegler. But that's where I think that individuality is so important, because the world just wants to insert male dominance in spots. And the idea that I have anything to do with that is bullshit and actually pisses me off. So that's why I think there is that other component of that individuality that's so important. I don't need that.
That's different. Mick doesn't need to maintain his individuality because they're going to think Britt's running his shop. The opposite is not always true at this particular point in our evolution, which sucks because we're too slow, but it is still the truth.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: It's 100% true. It is, and I totally acknowledge that. And again, you just showed that support, that piece of the support that we're talking about. That's a perfect example of you identifying that and recognizing it. And I've referenced this once before, but I'm going to mention it again because I'm sure a lot of people haven't, hopefully, but I'm sure a lot of people haven't watched the episode where if we go and we're meeting new people, your automatic introduction is Brit. And you talk about being a pro soccer player or going to hopkins or having her business, and that's because you want to. And now that I think about it more, it's like you want to give me my individual identity and strength and make sure they know that and even credit.
Right. But it's also like she's got her own thing where I don't have to do that for like, I don't have to be like, this is Nick, president of Arnold packaging. Here's what he's done. He was a golfer.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Unfortunately, they're already busy talking to me. And that's the bullshit of the entire thing. Right.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: And this isn't a victim. No.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: It's an observation of where we are at this moment in time.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Right. And it's just the reality of it. But I think the other piece of it is also to an extent, you just can't not. I'm not going to not show up with you. Somewhere.
Mick is running Tagler construction supply. Meanwhile.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: It's preposterous. That's why it's so.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Damn.
You can't worry about those type of things. I mean, people are going to be making judgments and assumptions all the time. All the time. So that's part of it.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Well, good. I had to get that in.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Okay, let's go back to, I'll refer to it as that pendulum because relationships are, they're never, rarely 50 50. Like a lot of times there's a 60 40 swing or 90 ten, and that's okay. Again, it comes to the communication piece. And this is so relevant because just this week or last week, I got an email from you and it was just saying, and usually we talk about in person, but you were literally up in the air and we couldn't talk on the phone. And just explaining that, I think you apologize for being short of something which I hadn't even noticed. So it was more in your mind than anything, but because of the certain work demands. And it just comes back to like, I am prefacing right now. I'm telling you up front, like, this is why I may act in a certain way or even if it is reactive, a bit of like, I'm short, but it's only because I'm with you. It's coming out on you, but it's because of this thing, right? And it's that communication piece, but it automatically drops my guard and wants me to step in. Okay, what could I do? And that was my response, I believe. I was like, okay, well, let's talk about it. What are we going to do to destress to get some of that workload, if it's me picking up a couple of extra things on the personal side, because we've got a lot going on between a house renovation and everything else, we're not even living at home. There's a lot of other things going on. So what can I do to pick those things up or just help with the workload? And I'm not sure we're ever great at doing that because our bandwidth are both so small most of the time, like so limited.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: And there's also things that were a little specialized too, right? I mean, I'd love to be able to just step right in and pick up and support specifically with what has you jammed up. But I can't produce a construction quote in the business.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: Sure, that's what I was talking about. What are the other things?
[00:34:39] Speaker B: But this is one of those, love in business is one of those just for everybody. So everybody knows Britt generally drives this. I would say I'm here and I shoot, but as it relates to a lot of behind the scenes, you, Tommy, of course, do a lot of that. I mean, in this moment, as you mentioned, we are doing some housework which has us living in the Marriott residence. Shout out to the residents.
So I tend to be a little more head down on that at moments and being on site, and there's just this unspoken thing where I just look and think, oh, yes, this is my gig. And you look and just happen. It's not like we sit down and plan this stuff out. Fortunately, it finds its way organically. The mask business was pretty funny in that way as far as us just adopting our responsibilities. And in general, it works that way, though.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Thank goodness it does. And it's all about communication. And I think making sure you understand, in your relationships, it's totally okay to be on the end of the 10% spectrum or the 90% where 90% of the attention, the relationship is going towards you.
And that's okay. Excuse me. That's okay. But making sure that there's got to be, overall, that 50 50 ish in your relationship, it's keeping an eye on that.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: On the big net. Right, on the big net.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Because that would just be a problem. But I think certainly understanding and supporting those pendulum swings and being totally in recognizing them, even proactively, like, listen, I know you've got a lot. What can I do now? This is a moment that I've got to step up.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's worked very well in that regard. I think back to a couple of things, too, on the communication side. So I bang my microphone around that vulnerability piece. I've spoken to this a lot. My father was 50 years older than me, and growing up under a boomer, there's just different types of behaviors and habits that you don't learn from somebody that was born in 1921, and vulnerability is one of them. Yeah, it's more of that stiff upper lip, and you would under communicate in moments like that. And that's exactly the wrong approach in a lot of spots. I'm not saying you need to be a blubbering fool, either, somewhere between here and there, but the ability to say, I need help, I'm off.
I'm not 100%. And it starts with that. And that's a very unfortunately still, as I watch the younger members, Tommy and his emerging thought leaders, and there's still some of that that's evolving. I think I made up this story in my head that the younger generations behind us just had that. It's not quite there yet, either. I mean, I think it's better than what I had and better than what I've experienced from older generations. But there is still this push and pull between the ability to be vulnerable. Heck, I watch the girls I don't even know.
Our youngest daughter has an inability to be vulnerable, and that's amazing to me. And again, I don't want her to be a blubbering idiot either. But the ability to be vulnerable, I don't want that. I mean, if anything, I'm coming to them as their dad, as a male, saying, how about a little more vulnerability here? Because if you let me in, I can help. If there's a benefit to that, it's that if you open up and show some vulnerability or show a wound, somebody will fix it for you.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. That vulnerability, that's a very hard word to say.
It's challenging. I mean, it's challenging for anybody. It's just not.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: Where do you draw the line with weakness? Right. I think that is the absolute fear of being vulnerable is showing up or being portrayed or judged, maybe even a better word, as weak. And I think if there's a fear of not sharing that, it's being perceived as weak. And that sucks.
[00:38:37] Speaker A: I've never thought about this. This was my gut instinct. Answer to you on that was if you're showing up vulnerable, that genuinely vulnerable, because you want to share and explain something, I think that's a one. A, because there's going to be people that are doing things or saying things to get sympathy or playing some kind of victim card, like that genuine piece, which is so easy to.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Well, that's manipulation. That's manipulation.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah, but they could look the same.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Oh, no question.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Very much. Absolutely the same.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's based on motive.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: Well, we talked about that. I actually referenced that. There's a lot of people being super vulnerable on social media to attract some type of audience or viewership or attention. When it's all bullshit, it's just to try to do exactly that. So that's the first piece. The second piece, I would say how you distinguish vulnerability between weakness. It would be, what do you do once you share that information? And I would hope you get some type of feedback or insight or help or empathy, whatever that is, or looks like it could be all of those things. What do you do with it?
[00:39:49] Speaker B: Well, if and when I'm sharing to what I would consider a next level degree, if it's something that I don't know would be a little bit more personal. If I'm doing that, it's usually because I think there's an opportunity to connect. That's usually my motivation. It's actually the other way. It's not about Mick getting something out of it. It's about recognizing that the person that I'm talking to is having an experience that I've had, and by sharing it that I might be able to help them get out of it or get past it faster if it's a bad experience. Right. So really, it would just, for me, it would be about finding an opportunity or a point to connect and help that person out. So it's the opposite. I mean, done correctly, it would be about you, not about me.
[00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess now that I think about it, that makes total sense to me. And I guess it's totally circumstantial if you're coming to somebody very vulnerable because you just can't do this thing or get this thing across the line or you're not showing up or doing something because of this, and you have to share it and be vulnerable about why and open. That's one thing. The other part could absolutely be you're showing up to, you let your guard down and you let somebody in to relate. So that's circumstantial, but important and hard.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: In practice.
[00:41:06] Speaker B: And, yeah, there's a lot of things we talked about security, the opposite of insecurity. So there has to be a lot of things present to actually be able to get to that moment, many of which I was absent as a much younger male leader, whatever. All my titles were in the past. Very difficult. Very difficult.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: So we struck on vulnerability. The other thing I want to make sure we talk about is how to maintain a sense of humor, which is challenging. And I will use our relationship could be even more challenging because our relationship is one that is very high pressure. And everything mostly is business.
Even the hobbies we're talking about are super competitive, demanding and demanding and high pressure. Yeah, we want to win. That feels good. Of course we want to win.
[00:42:03] Speaker B: Will we show up ready to compete?
[00:42:04] Speaker A: To compete. We want to compete is a better word. Compete, whether it's with ourselves or with other people, but generally it's with both. I mean, I'll speak for myself. I know everybody's like, show up the best version of yourself. And I do want to do that. I want to better my scores. I also want to beat other people. I'll be lying if I said otherwise.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: I just want to be the best, period. Yeah, not the best. Me, the best.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: I mean, if you want my honest, I get it. And I think a lot of other people can agree with that feeling.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: All that to say that high pressure could be stressful. It could create tension. It could create burnout without that sense of humor, and I'll take it a step further and say the play and just the fun, like the interjection of that comedic relief.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: Yeah. What I've noticed is, yes, I completely agree. And because of the demands of the job, I am called upon a lot to show up in a very analytical way, at least for me. My methodology behind problem solving is generally to turn to data. I'm very comfortable there, and it's very objective. And I have just found that, for the most part, it's a great way to start into a problem. But when you do that all the time, you end up to your teammates being this robot. Yeah. This robotic thing that. It's funny when I actually stop and cut up or act goofy, which, you know, I'm actually goofy as shit.
I have every xn in the world, whether it's old southern lady or whatever, I have all of them. But when I break those around in the office, especially to people that are new and they don't know me that well, they are floored that I actually have a comedy routine that I run in front of you and your family off hours all the time, and no one pays any attention. And I don't stop to do it enough here. I mean, we have this game around here where people will write something down, and it would say, you would never guess that. And then there's five answers on the page, and people have to guess who in the room. And mine was that if I wasn't doing this, I would. And you fill in the blank, and mine was, I would be doing improvisational comedy. And let me tell you that nobody in the room lined up Mick Arnold with the guy that would be interested in improvisational.
Yeah, it's. It's. It's super important to cut up. I mean, I am. You are. We are as about as human as they get and as flawed as they get. And I will even take it as. And you get on me about this at time, I'll even take it into self deprecation mode, where I will make incredible fun of myself about flaws or imperfections. And I've done that since I was a little kid. I learned that at a very early age and still do it. I mean, the easiest person to make fun of is actually me, because I.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: Know nobody else can.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: Well, I think that was part of the defense mechanism that I picked up. But now it's also easy, because to the people that are in the audience, the people that know me here, it's preposterous that I would make fun of myself for things like that, but they're true. And I know me better than anybody else, so I'm the best at making fun of myself in that regard.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we definitely add a sense of humor into what we do. But it's hard at times. Absolutely.
When things are very serious and high pressure and demanding and high stakes. And high stakes. Yeah.
[00:45:39] Speaker B: That's a big word.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: I mean, the risk and the liability. And you think about it from a business perspective when you're supporting a lot of people's livelihood in their lives, and that's pressure, but it's so important, I almost feel like it's required. And everybody's sense of humor and sense of fun. What is fun looks different. But finding that is, and I'm not sure we.
I'll ask you, do you think we do it enough?
[00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I don't. And the other thing, too, is back to your pendulum piece, right? I mean, we are working on different things at different times in this exact moment right now, in February, I am in the field a lot.
We have hit these headwinds of top line growth. And if I am anything, I'm a salesperson. That is my superpower. So of all the things that can be done or I can lean into inside the organization, I can directly affect sales. And what that means is it means that I'm out of the office more in these types of moments than I am. So then when I am back, I'm very head down. Right. I have things that I can only do here, and it means it consumes the bandwidth. So if I'm only here two days a week, which is what this week is going to look like, then that bandwidth is consumed with. I have these 22 things that I have to do in the two days that I am on site, and it robs or steals from that time. Now, I do try to be better about just cracking jokes or being a jackass on the way down the hall. Right. I got to walk down the hall anyway. So why not do something stupid between here and the robot room? And that's what I will do. Or if I catch myself being overly burdened, then I will just shake it loose on the way down the hall. So that's something I do try to be sensitive to. Or I'll cut up with one of our customer service people. We've got some great characters out there, especially Teresa. And I will mess with Teresa on the way by, and she's always happy to a, be shocked that I'm cutting up, and then b, get right in and participate.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah. My question to you is when you said, well, I'm going to be there. I'll be in the office this week, two days. And I have these tasks that I've got to complete, and I've only got two days or so behind a computer in the office with certain people. So I've got to be head down. I often think to myself, and I'm directing this question at you, but I'm really.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: You're asking you. That's right. That's what we do here.
[00:48:06] Speaker A: Is it more productive to cross those 20 things off rather than just to have a dumb ass conversation with a couple of people for 20 minutes and create a next level of rapport with your teammates? There are just so many things I think about because I'll have somebody talking my ear off. And all I'm thinking the whole time is like, I don't have time for this conversation. It's such a waste of time. But I do need to get that quote out so we can get a job. And while there's truth to that, I'm also wondering what the opportunity costs are, not having those fun, in the moment, trivial, stupid conversations.
Listen, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't do this.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: You don't.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: I'm horrific at this.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think if I can give you some constructive criticism, hopefully I live through this, it's that you are only here two days a week. Right. The way your schedule works and your team works, which has a three day remote component, you only get two days in the office with my week. Right. So those suggestion would be that you'd be better served by trying to push those exclusive head down moments to Monday, Thursday and Friday in exchange for being very present for your team that you only see physically two days a week and being more intentional at the same time about, you know, I will stop in Steve Sutton's office. It's usually at the end of the day, he and I are usually the first ones here and the last ones out. And I'll go in and he knows when I'm coming. When I sit on his bench and I put my legs up and my feet are up in the air, then he knows I'm about to share something with him. May or may not be funny every single time, but it's going to be a very wide open, very raw comment or conversation that we're about to have. And I usually end up laughing about it. Right. Or I will pull some humor into it as part of it. But yeah.
Yes, you have to do it. And I agree that I'd love to just be checking off those 22 things, but those interactions are so important. And it's our job as leaders to set the tone for the organization. And if you want an organization that's head down grind and that then you can set that tone. Or if you want an organization that understands that it's okay to have some levity in spots and it's okay to goof off in spots and it's okay to say something funny, job still has to get done, but I think you can have it all. I really do.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: And if you bring that back to relationships because we got into the business side, but really we're dedicating this to relationships, it's just the same. You could have a million things to get done between checking things off for the kids and what needs to be done around the house. And it's like, we're not going out to dinner, we're not doing this fun thing that we enjoy because this stuff's got to get done. It's like, okay, well, did cleaning the house, what did that do for us? As opposed to an hour and a half or 2 hours out to dinner?
And again, we're not great at this.
[00:51:16] Speaker B: But for us, it wouldn't be cleaning the house, it would be that quote or it would be that applicable.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's my point here.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: Not everybody's in business relationship, so I was just trying to put that into relationship perspective about how important that is to not put those things off because they can become so secondary.
[00:51:35] Speaker B: Sure, it'll wait. Like that whole mantra of it'll wait and it will wait. And you and I are so guilty of just putting that pressure on ourselves. I don't know that the world is actually expecting of us what we think they are. And there are moments in there to not do it, push it off. What we would consider procrastinating. The rest of the world would consider it a pretty normal cadence, I think.
[00:51:57] Speaker A: I don't know do that well. I think it's also too like being realistic, engaging it. There are times now we're terrible at this. We are headed down 24/7 there are other times where we're pretty good at it. We get off the grid a lot, as we call it. We get off the grid and we go out and we do these things. So I think it's also being realistic. There are times where getting the thing done is the most important thing.
And certainly you can inject small, little funny things in between there, but you've got to be realistic and you've got to be constantly gauging the temperature on where you are and what you have going on in your life and seeing what seasons you can do. What? Because not every season is going to be the same, and it shouldn't be, right. But it's being very real and analytical and again, communicating.
[00:52:48] Speaker B: And also, too, you have to understand that there are moments are going to suck right now, you've mentioned a couple of times we're having some work done to our floors, right? So that requires us to get out of there, and we're living in a hotel, which is awesome. And I'm so fortunate that we have the ability to do that, but it's very disruptive. Right? I mean, you and I are very routine people, and our stuff is actually stored in some pallet positions out in the warehouse. And we've got the same five things that we're wearing for a number of weeks back to back. So it's like, all right, this is going to be different for a minute, and that's okay. And there are moments where you're just going to be like, look, I'm sorry, rest of the world, there won't be any giggle time or any f off time here in the foreseeable future, but just as soon as we get through it, we'll be right back to giggling as soon as possible. So that happens, too, which I think that's fine. Totally fine. But I take away so many things from these conversations, right? I would be a better leader if we sit here and ponder this stuff out loud in front of our audience. But I promise you, I will be much more intentional and cognizant of injecting some of that levity and having some of that fun. And one of my favorite things is to watch the looks on the people's face because they're shocked that I'm actually not being that robotic thing that we just talked about.
[00:54:06] Speaker A: Is there anything you'd like to further add to the conversation?
[00:54:10] Speaker B: Just that I love this.
I say it all the time. Our listeners get to watch me. I can speak for you, I think, here, too, but just watch us think through certain ideas. And the number of times each of us in these podcasts say, I never stopped to think about it, but. Or now that I hear my answer, I actually think. I mean, that happens a lot. So these are all great conversations, and I just hope people get as much out of them as I do. I mean, I am sitting here observing and learning real time, and I hope everybody else is having the same experience. That would be cool.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: Ditto so to rehash, we talked about the importance of how to maintain identity or the importance of maintaining a strong individual identity while still strengthening shared relationships. And how to do that. Celebrating joint and individual wins and milestones, supporting dreams and visions. Which part of that is that? Effective communication and the collaboration piece. How can we share in this together? The art of compromise, embracing vulnerability and maintaining, last but not least, maintaining fun, humor, play in a relationship, which we will work on.
[00:55:23] Speaker B: Yes. More fun, more fun, more fun. Gone. I'm in. I'm all about it. I got to get better at it. But in this moment. But I'm definitely all about it.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: Well, maybe we should start. And the weather.
[00:55:34] Speaker B: Yeah, we will. And the weather will help. That, too.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: Let's not blame the weather. I'm just saying, don't blame external sources here.
[00:55:41] Speaker B: All right, whatever.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Look inside. Look inside.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Leave me alone. I feel sad.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: All right, we did it.
[00:55:48] Speaker B: Happy Valentine's Day.
[00:55:49] Speaker A: Happy Valentine's Day.
[00:55:50] Speaker B: All right, cheers.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Cheers.
As always, thank you so much for listening. We truly appreciate it.
[00:55:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And you can catch all of our podcasts on all your favorite platforms. Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, Apple. When you get there, check out the show notes. Give us a subscribe, give us a know. We're working for your support and we're here to teach you a thing or two. And, man, just a quick click, we'll keep our fire burning. We appreciate it.
[00:56:15] Speaker A: And as always, new episode will drop two weeks from today, Wednesday, every other Wednesday. We'll see you then.
[00:56:23] Speaker B: Have a good one.
Welcome to Rodney Robin talks for the superstars tonight. Tonight, west guest, the incredible, credible, incredible.
