Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: So much comes to mind when we talk about refusing to lose. And along these same lines, you have to be really committed a but resilient. And part of being able to be resilient, in my opinion, is having your expectations aligned. So whether we are happy or sad or the way we feel is typically how aligned we are with our expectations.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome to H. Romney talks for the superstars tonight.
Hello and welcome to love and business. I am Mick Arnold, president of Arnold Packaging and Arnold Automation.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: And I am Brit Arnold, president of Tigler Construction and supply.
Very quickly, we have one favor to ask of you, the only favor we will ever ask. Please take a second and subscribe to the channel. It helps a tremendous amount with the content we are able to provide for you.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah, so quickie math nerd moment for me. Did you know that only 22% of our listeners are actual subscribers? So 78% of you please get off your tails and hit that subscribe button. We'll wait for you.
Okay, thank you for that.
I figured if I did give them time and they were worried they would miss something, then they wouldn't hit the button. So I figured it was fair.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: I like the approach.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: And let me tell you what they didn't want to miss. They didn't want to miss today's episode, which is refuse to lose.
And I flashback to a day when I was playing a tremendous amount of golf. I mean, a lot, a lot, a lot. And really, I think I was probably a professional amateur, is what we would have called someone like me back in the day, who actually had a job but played so much golf that they were a professional amateur. And got up one morning, got to the first tee with my typical group. And if you've played Chartwell country club, you know, the range is on the right, and, you know, the shed where they store all of the cutting equipment is right at the end of it, all of which is out of bounds. So stood up on the first tee, uh, dialed in to, you know, break the course record, like every day that I played, didn't break it, but that was certainly my intention. And hit a ball right over the shed. So, you know, went back to the cart, got another ball stuck in the ground, hit the second one right over the shed. So now I'm sitting on the tee, and I don't have a ball in play, and I'm out in 1345. Now I'm hitting six off of, off of the first tee. And I looked over at my playing partner and said, you know, this is going to be the coolest 68 you ever see your entire life? Hit one down the middle, made birdie with my third ball, kept the round going. And ultimately, I think I shot 69 or 70, but played really well for the last 17 holes. And. And what I remembered was when I was a lot younger player, you know, and played some college golf, played a lot of really competitive golf, my mental fortitude was not good enough when I was a younger, less mature player to stay in that round. I would have gotten emotional, I would have gotten sideways, I would have gotten cloudy, because that's what emotion does in that, in that moment. And I would have quit on the round with four and a half hours to go, which is tragic and stupid and wasteful. But I remember that's how I would have showed up. I would have pitched a fit instead of digging in and trying to figure out how to make what I was going to make on the first hole, but then lean into the next 17 holes or whatever that would be in the sport you played. And I got a lot better at that. And I think that was one of the big carryovers for me in my sport of choice, which was golf in that day in particular, really resonated with me, where I know younger Mc Arnold would have whined or made an excuse or been a brat. I probably could have even been a little bit of a brat for the next few holes, and I probably would have followed up with a double and I probably would have, you know, done a bunch of stupid, cloudy, lack of focus things and just let the round go away and gone out and been a total ass for the next four and a half hours to me, to the three people I was playing with and probably even disrespectful to the game.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: I can relate to that. And I have a lot of similar stories in soccer growing up. This reminds me of the idea of responding, not reacting, and you have to have the maturity to be able to do that and experience where you're taking.
I look at that as when you respond and don't react, you are in control. You're in control of your emotions, you're in control of what's going on, as opposed to just instantly reacting and not taking a second or really not having the control to respond. And I only think you can do that with a lot of practice and a lot of time, but I think it makes a world of difference. And it sounds like in that moment, that's what you were able to do.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. And, you know, I didn't dial it down to that. Those are two great words. So if you're listening. Great takeaway. And the idea between reacting and responding. And there's lots of, you know, as a much more mature person, but business man. Right? So many crossovers we talk about all the time between what we learned as, you know, younger athletes or whatever we were approaching or pursuing, and now what we do and how that crosses over into the work world. And there's any number of sayings that I have now when I'm trying to slow it down for myself, right, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, that old saying of waiting for the other shoe to drop.
What's different is I recognize those moments and instead of reacting, I get myself over into that other space. And instead it would be something like, well, this seems like an elephant. How do we eat it? One bite at a time.
That would be a response that I would have versus younger McDonald, who might have reacted with poor decisions, fast decisions, not understanding that there is time to let it marinate for a second, that none of those decisions are so snap that if you don't make them immediately, there's going to be consequences that are likely detrimental.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: It reminds me of one of the sayings you've always said, which is, correct me if I'm wrong, there's more room between the boats. Yes, yes. And that saying always resonates with me, especially in the beginning of when I was running the company, everything seems so urgent and so overwhelming that it seemed like, how in the world was I going to get it all done? And you. And one of the sayings I really like that you said, there's more room between the boats than you think there are. Meaning you have more time than you think. Don't need to rush it, don't need to take shortcuts, need to show up with urgency, need to work hard, all of those things, but need to take your time and do it right.
And I do agree, when things seem overwhelming and you seem like you have to get everything done with launch and you're rushing, things become very cloudy, your judgment is not as good. And again, that just takes time. I'm not sure that time and practice, I'm not sure there's anything else that can correct that or make you better at it. Like, the only reason I am now in a position where I can figure out in my business what needs immediate attention, what doesn't, what I have more time on, what's more urgent is just time and simply understanding better and being able to prioritize a little better. But that's just time spent in the business hours, purely.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm going to double back to that, that boat story just so our listeners can follow along. When I was young, we grew up on the river and had boats. And I remember when I was first learning to navigate and to be able to run a boat on my own, I would get out on the Severn river, which is where I. I grew up, in the area that I was when I was young. And as I was head, I was. As I was heading up the river, I would look out in the distance and I would see what looked to me like a wall of boats, and I would. And I remember vividly the anxiety that I would take on because I was a new boater. And what did the coast guard say? Do I go by on the right? And is it 100ft? Or what are all these rules when I'm passing other boats? And what about sailboats? They have different rite of passage than power boats. And I remember taking on this anxiety and it actually building up.
But as I continued down the river and I got closer, the boats weren't lined up in a wall. There was actually, you know, they were three. They were more three dimensional in nature. This one was close, but that one was far, and there was plenty of room to navigate between them. So that's that saying or something. I remember when I would feel anxiety was it looked like when I first started that there was an impenetrable wall of boats. But as I continued to make my way along, turns out that there was plenty of room and it was pretty easily navigable. Exactly the opposite of what I was preparing for.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: I love that analogy. I really do.
So, as we're talking about refuse to lose. Refuse, yeah, refuse to lose.
Why did you think this was an important topic to talk about today? Is there something that triggered it? Is there something relevant in your business, or is it just a topic that, you know, why is that weighing. Why is it weighing on your mind right now? Because I love the fact that we come in here once a week or once every other week and we talk about things, and typically it's triggered by an event or something that happened. Is there anything relevant?
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, despite being 91 years old, I think that some people have this idea that because you've been doing it for a long time, either the company for a long time or me personally for a long time, you know, 30 plus years, that it's. It's easy or it just comes easy, or that there aren't any, you know, really, really difficult days. That's not true. I mean, unfortunately, we haven't crafted this master handbook for every single thing that comes up. But what triggered it? To answer your question, is there are times when I find myself getting frustrated because we're making mistakes or we're making errors that I feel like we've already made and that we shouldn't be making these mistakes. Right. We have done this long enough. We've been in the same industry for a while that quote, unquote, we should know better or something. And that's when I can get myself. I find myself frustrated or getting a little amped up or ramped up around the topic. Now, one of the things that I realize is that nothing is static. Everything is actually dynamic. And regardless of how long you've been in business or how long I've been in this particular role, that everything else around me is changing. Right? My teammates are different. They have different lengths of tenure, technology, our competitors, all the pressures. But my six month old teammate, who's a new member of our team, they've never made that mistake before. Right. And I'm frustrated, almost as if they don't have the right to be human and make that mistake because we made that back in 1982, dum dum. Right? We don't make that. I mean, that's wrong. That's so absolutely wrong of me. But that was one of those where, you know, and listen, if you think for a second as an entrepreneur, where there aren't moments, I'll even kid you. And I'll say, you know, maybe I'll just be an individual contributor. That's the word for somebody that doesn't have any direct reports. One of my buddies took a role recently, and he. And that was the first time I'd ever really paid attention to that word. He said, yes, I'm going to be an individual contributor.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Just pack all your shit up.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: And that sounds amazing. What does that mean? He said, it means I'm just responsible for me. And I was like, oh, my God, that sounds amazing.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: So if you would hate it.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I would. I would. And then 10 seconds later, I was probably hugging one of my teammates on the way down the hall or high five in or given, you know, giving Tommy a hard time for not swimming across the channel today.
But. But if you think for a second as an entrepreneur that you don't backslide or you don't have those just childish or even primal moments, you're wrong. They're. They're absolutely in there. So that is a long answer to that's how I got here. And sometimes I'm just like, nope, that's it. We're digging in. Losing is not an option. So you hit two balls over the shed, get one in play, and get this round under control.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: And I know the audience, those of you, thank you so much, who have stuck with us on these episodes, you're probably sick of me talking about this, but for some of you that are new here, we talk about the mundanity of excellence. And this, I always go back to it because it seems so relevant, especially even in this moment, continually going back to things in your business that you have done for many, many years, and you're either going over them again, but I can assure you, you're enhancing and you're refining them, and it comes back to. And I think this is part of refusing to lose and becoming excellent. I know it is. It's just continuing to do the same things day in and day out, but hopefully making them better. And I truly believe, I really, really believe that the difference between people that succeed or people that are excellent, as you like to say, are those that can do the mundane things the best day in and day out, and they can sustain that and sustain that work ethic.
And those are the people that typically come out. It's not sexy. It's not the big things that people are doing. It's the small things that make a big difference that people are doing every single day who can show up and be consistent.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's so many. There's so many examples just in life around those. One popped into my mind because you were saying the same thing over and over again. And then my thought was, while mixing in what you've learned, while tweaking it. And then I had an idea of a chef. Right, and a recipe, and you're constantly making these minor tweaks to that recipe to bring the flavor out, to do different things. And it evolves, like your business, like everything else, over time. And, you know, that recipe, which is a great word, and by the way, we use the word recipe throughout the manufacturing world, all over the place. Like, if we're making a part, you know, a bill of materials, could also be called a recipe. I mean, there's so many, so much crossover between different things. But as you were talking, I thought, yeah, I'd have this, this core of ingredients, which I know are amazing, and I'd be weeding in. I might be increasing one or decreasing another or adding a little bit of something new to ultimately get where I wanted to go and be exponentially, hopefully exponentially better than what I had made the day prior.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Zachary so much comes to mind when we talk about refusing to lose. And along these same lines, one of them is refusing to lose. You have to be really committed, a but resilient. And part of being able to be resilient, in my opinion, is having your expectations aligned.
Whether we are happy or sad or the way we feel is typically how aligned we are with our expectations. And so now when I show younger me would always show up winning, expecting to win or things to go perfectly. And when they didn't, much like you, I could be a brat or throw a tantrum or just act in a way that I didn't want to show up. Now, I definitely am able to. Not always, but most of the time go into things with my expectations aligned. And we always joke about when you go into the MVA or DMV, like, your expectation is you are not walking out of there with what you came in for. So, like, if you need a license or you need a permit, something like, you're not walking out of there the first time with it. You're gonna have to go back two or three times.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah, you will forgotten a piece of paper, right.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Or they're gonna make it hard and they're gonna make you get another document or get something notarized. So I now if I go in there, I'm like, I will have to go back two more times. So I don't even care the first time when I walk back out, or maybe even the second time. So it's showing up. So now when I approach things and I talk about this DC business that we're building, we submitted every after hours and hours and hours of tedious work. We submitted all the paperwork, and they came back, the DC government, with, I mean, I didn't. Tens and tens of hours of.
Well, they came back with corrections we had to make, which for me is going to result in a ton of hours and hours of extra work. But when I submitted that application in the past, I would have just said, oh, we're going to be approved and we're going to get this designation and all is going to be well. I know better now. And my expectations were aligned. I know there's going to be a few back and forths of submit this, correct this. So when they came back, I was not startled, I was not phased. Like, okay, this is what it is. And I constantly remind myself, although cliche, so true, so many people in that moment would say, screw it, I'm done. I've already put so much work in here, I cannot possibly do more and I know this is what separates those who continue on this path and those who don't. And that's. I mean, that's how you get to the next level, is you're willing to do, you're committed, you're willing to put in that work and be consistent, more consistent than anybody else, and power through. So getting expectations aligned and being resilient when things don't turn out the way you initially want them to, which those two things are tied is such an important piece of this, refusing to lose.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I think for the new entrepreneur. And I do want to add on to your story just because I have a, you know, I have a front row seat for that activity for you that was even with the help of an incredible war room partner from a legal perspective. Right. You had a great council, literally, counsel helping you with it, and there still was a tremendous amount of work to do. So imagine that you show up by yourself attempting to, if you got halfway there with a great war room, somebody else gets 10% or 15% of the way there without that type of counsel, and they may want to pack their tent and fold it.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Zachary. Well, now I'm poor because I spent so much money on the law firm that I have to tell. I had to tell them I got to go out this myself because I can't afford to pay you any because we're not making any money at the business that we don't have up and running. Yeah, right.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: I mean, I could go on, right?
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I can't do business because I don't have the thing.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: I can't do business because I don't have a business because I'm paying you to get my business up and running, and this is just.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: But you're going to stick with it, right? I just want to make sure.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: I mean, I'm going to maybe be living on the streets by the end of this, but, oh, my God, Tommy.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Wouldn'T have to wrap this short so we can go make a cardboard box for Brit to live in.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah. If I. This is. If this is maybe a breakdown on camera.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: I was going to say this is. I feel like we need to move a couch in. Do we know we need that couch as part of our set going forward?
[00:18:55] Speaker A: This is part of my therapy session.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. But I think, you know, part of that, you know, with the experience. Cause that's what we also started with the episode two was, you know, young Mick would have been a brat and quit. And once you, as you're in it, longer I mean, imagine now that I've hit two balls over the shed and shot 69. Now, next time I hit two balls over the shed, what happens? Like, huh, I've been there. Looks like 69 coming up today, everybody. Right? So all of a sudden, it becomes not nearly the event that it was the first time because you have that experience.
And what is familiarity? And that's so. I mean, that word is so important and interesting to me because there's a great saying, you know, familiarity breach trust, and trust in what, you know, could be a person, if you're familiar, could be also be a process, too. You know, if you've seen a process work before, then your familiarity with the process could also breed trust in that process. And those are all outcomes of those are the benefits, right? Because if I had been a brat or not stuck with it, I would have missed the opportunity to lose that, to learn that lesson. And that is. So you've got to do both, right? You've got to be there, and then you've also got to blow it, and then you have to work through it. You have to have all three of those to be able to walk away better than you showed up.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: And that comes down to constantly putting yourself in those positions. So you are constantly failing and building that resiliency muscle. There's no other way to do it. Like, you have to continue to put yourself in uncomfortable positions. Again, I feel like some of the stuff we're talking about is cliche, but it's cliche for a reason. You know, it's so true. You would have never learned to get better at your golf game had you not continually put yourself in uncomfortable positions with great players. Many different tournaments. I mean, like those. Those things you have to do. We're talking about golf, but in any. This is applicable to any part of your life.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Sure, sure. Dance. Dance. Right. I'm just thinking, you know, if you're not an athlete, if there's other things that are your pursuits, dance could be won. Theater could be won. Talk about putting yourself in uncomfortable positions. Wow. It's one thing to, you know, hit a driver in front of a group, singing in front of a different group. Talk about putting yourself out there. Whoa.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: It is. And a lot of people talk about, you have to continually put yourself, be consistent in being in uncomfortable situations so that you can ultimately succeed or be excellent. But I'm flipping it and saying, you have to do that. So you fail a lot. So you become accustomed and familiar with failing. So you build that resiliency, and then ultimately, in the end. Hopefully you succeed, whatever succeed means to you.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Right. And I think that's also too you. I parse the difference a lot between excellence and success. Right. Success being external and excellence being internal. Right. That that's what I'm always striving for is that's great. You know, if everybody else seems to think it's awesome and wants to shed success on me, that's great. But really, it's just about excellence, which is internal.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: And this is all frameworks. I mean, it's all the way you frame situations. You know, when you, when you come out of a situation and it didn't go the way you planned, you lost, you were defeated.
How are you framing that situation? That's everything. You can come out defeated. I suck. I should give up. You can come out. Wow. I learned a lot. I learned that there's a lot to be improved upon, which a lot of times for me is super exciting because you, like, God, I have so much room to grow. Like, if you're coming into a thing and you know you suck and you're like, okay, I already know I have a lot to learn and lots grow. But if you're coming into something, you think you're pretty good and then you get rocked, that's exciting. You're like, there's so much potential, so much room to grow. I have so much more work to do. And if you really love what you're doing, that's motivating, that's inspiring, that will get you out of bed in the morning.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Well, that's a really mature idea you just put forth, though, right? That if, when you got, so you said, well, if you showed up knowing you suck, that's back to the one comment about having your expectations in line. But if you think you're good and then you get rocked, can you imagine having that type of maturity to say, oh, my God, that's amazing. I didn't know how bad I sucked, and look how much room I have for improvement.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: Now, listen, I would be sitting in a chair talking about this.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: Are you saying practice that 100% of.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: The time in the moment? I don't know how necessarily I can while I'm sitting in a chair, very calm, not in a situation.
Looking at it from a holistic view, it's very easy for me to say that is the smart thing to do. And, wow, I will grow so much when I do that.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah, hopefully we can take that away like we do for a lot of our podcasts. Your parents mentioned, though, that when you lost soccer games, you were not very happy. You were not very nice to people.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Nobody wanted to be around me. Yeah. I hope I've grown since then. They particularly did not want to be around me. But I think that is part of, you know, that soccer meant so much to me when I was younger, and it's. I turned it into a career, but that it just. My. Those emotions that would come out. I was young. I didn't really know how to handle them or how to manage them. But that was just a product of giving a big, big ship. This is a little bit of a tangent.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Oh, my God. My mother's gonna love that one. Oh, yeah. She loves when you let it fly.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Ladies aren't such a curse.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Oh, lord. Clutch the pearl. She said, shit. Yeah.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: This is. This is a total tangent, but that's what we do here. I was listening to a podcast about. It was Sally McRae, which I love. We talked about her. She's the ultra runner, and she's in business with her husband. He does a lot of her crewing. And she has a. No, no, actually, no. Sorry, I'm referencing the wrong person. I was listening to Glennon and Abby Wambache, and they have a daughter. They were talking about their daughter that's playing soccer, and Abby was saying something she found, which she's trying to work with her daughter on and sees, which is such an interesting observation, is that females, at least on her team and just in general, are afraid, a lot of times afraid to show up and show everyone around them that they care the most, that they are willing to go to the ends of the earth to win. If the balls during practice, if the ball is over the sideline just a little bit, like they're fighting for it, they want to win. And it is very, very scary to show that you give a shit more than anyone else. Whereas on the national team, every single player would just, like, die to win the game. They all cared the most and they were not afraid to show it. Where she's realizing that younger girls, it's almost embarrassing, like, show that you care so much.
Really resonate with that. Yeah, sure. Because when you're in. When you're in a pool of all elite athletes, I cared the most, and so did everybody around me. And I was with an elite. I mean, every girl on my club team went to a very good d one school. Every single player. That's how good the team was. You know, we were between one and two in the nations. And then when you're playing in these elite levels, that's how everyone is, but when you're in a bigger pool and, you know, it's kids sports, you will pick up on these things. And that was such an interesting observation.
And I think you. I don't think. I know you have to have that mindset to be the best. So how. How can we teach you? I mean, there's not something I'm. I'm. This is rhetorical and I'm saying out loud, but as a female in business and a female who was an elite.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Athlete and the mother of daughters and.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah, the mother of. Well, yeah, this is that point. Like, how do we change that? How do we change that mindset? How do we. Because I don't think guys don't have that. There's, there's, that there's not. That is not a thing with dudes.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: No, no, it's not.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: And it's like females want to be part of the pack. They don't want to stray off. They don't want to cause any conflict. They don't want to be embarrassed. They don't care more than anything and then screw up on the field. And, you know, it's. But it's a thing.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: I wonder how that gets built in, because that's not DNA based. No, we. And as someone who coached his daughters all the way through, and I. And, you know, you know, I have talked a lot, maybe on the podcast, maybe not, but just this idea. I would, you know, I would have families and I coached the daughter, and let's just say hypothetically, they had a twin brother, and that did happen along the way. So out of the womb at the same time and the exact same age within seconds of each other. Daughter might have even been 14 seconds older or something like that. But the parenting piece and even still. So this goes back a little bit, right? This is probably 2012 1314, Brooke coming through first, just watching the parenting that went on.
The son was coached like a warrior and the daughter was coached like a princess, even though when I had her, she was an animal. With me and her 18 best friends on the team, I could make Sally a Savage. But when she went back, she had to get out of John's way because John was the boy in the family. So interesting dynamics. And we're building that. We as a society are building that somehow, either conscious or subconscious, but we're building it.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And I looked back at a LinkedIn post I wrote. I mean, it was years ago, and I do remember. Recall. I don't remember exactly what it said, but it was something about in this day and age. And I think particularly in the younger generations, it's, like, cool not to care too much. Like, it's not cool to give the biggest shit ever. And I was just writing about how I always do, like, what I'm doing. I care so much. Like, so extreme, so obsessed. And that's just how I've always been. And I think you can relate to that if. And. But that is not how a lot of females show up, even if they feel that way.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. We exercise. In our executive meeting a couple weeks back, it was as simple as pick a word to describe your teammate, and each of us had to pick one. And I will. And I think I. At least once I got the word relentless, and that was something, you know, at no point was I like, oh, gosh, relentless. I can't believe you think that way. I was like, that's exactly how I want you to think of me. I want you to think of me as relentless. And I would love to have.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: You are relentless.
You are.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: At least one person thought that. But how do we. How do we. How do we build and make little girls? I think this is about refuse to lose. But, you know, how do we build a culture for little girls where they say, I want you to know me exactly as relentless.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
Yeah. And I don't have the answer. Cause I grew up like that. Very much so. And I don't know why, other than, I mean, if we're talking about being raised, my parents just really let me do my thing and never felt like I had. I don't know.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Do you recall where it came from? And this is a huge point. Right. Just because your family are your family. They're the collection of the nicest, coolest.
Not overbearing. The opposite.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Not overbearing.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: Overbearing. Right. It wasn't like you had. Because we coached those dads that were obnoxious on the sidelines.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah. No, not at all.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: They never. They generally never played a sport. They were living vicariously through their seven year old boy or girl. Your parents were the exact opposite of that. So where did it come from? I'm over here saying, no, that's not a DNA thing. But was it a little bit of a DNA thing?
[00:30:33] Speaker A: Well, I can tell you that. So my sister and I don't share that same. We're really different. Like, she's got so many amazing qualities that I don't have, and vice versa. And we're similar in some ways, but she didn't show up like that, at least not in the sports like, relentless. And, I mean, she would tell you the same thing and our personalities are different. And my parents will tell you, this was, they think, out of the womb, that was me. So I don't know. And I don't think we'll ever. I mean, that's the nature versus nurture argument. Debate that ongoing for everything. But I'm not sure. I think it could probably be a mix of both.
I mean, I wish I knew. Well, yeah, I mean, if you ask them that, they would say, oh, immediately, like that was. You could tell.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Well, also, too, parents, this idea that because you grew up under the same roof, you had the same exact stimulus or stimuli. Bullshit. It's not true. I mean, as a younger child, and we watch Olivia as our youngest, right? I mean, when I tell you that kid came out of the womb scrapping and ready to battle. I mean, ready to battle, whether it was. Oh, who are you two? Clearly, you beat me here. I'm going to have to take everything you have. That's right. And that's how. And she's talking about her two older sisters, but it's like, all right, well, gonna have to run you two over between here and there. And definitely came out of the womb. Maybe.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Maybe birth order has something to do with it. I don't know.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Very interesting, though. Yeah.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: Well, I think that's on the topic of refuse to lose. Just that whole mentality. I think we went all the way back to childhood and my part would be, you know, how do we. How do we get kids?
How do we get kids into that mentality? I mean, how do we create this environment where it's not only okay to be exceptional when you're younger, it's celebrated. Right? It wouldn't be. We talk, we. Jorby, your vp and co worker and awesome human, tells us about the australian society, right? With the poppies.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: Tall poppies.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah, the tall poppies. Right. You don't want to be the tall poppy. Why? You get cut off. Right. Everybody hangs in this area of elevation.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: I've heard that's also used in the UK.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: I think you're right.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Similar mentality.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: I think you're right. And so that definitely seems to be part of the younger society.
And the thing that most amazes me is all of these kids are attracted to the most differentiated things, whether it's apple or under armour, or pick a brand that they rally around or something that they celebrate. They're the most singular, differentiated things. But they would. They don't want any parts of it. Right. When in their little world or their environment. It's, oh, my gosh, I want to be exactly like everybody else.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: I don't want to stick out, stand out. But the other things, they celebrate and they follow, and they're an audience for, they're all totally differentiated.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: It's all about acceptance, wanting to be accepted and not being that outlier. That's. That's. That's what it all comes down to. And that's really the important which we talk about one of the most. I think one of the most important things that will impact your life, especially as an adult, as your life partner. Right. I think it's the most impactful thing on who you are as a human is who the person you spend the most time with. And that's really important for kids, or anyone for that matter, is who are you surrounding yourself with as it's. As it related to this topic? You know, you're gonna have very few people. I heard.
What's his name? Simon Sinek. Sinek don't agree with everything he says, but he was talking about friendship. He's writing a new book on friendship. And one of the things he talked about was, a lot of us think about the friends that we have that are there when things go bad. Like, who's gonna be the first to call us? Who's gonna cheer us up? Who's gonna consistently check on us? He's like, but I've started to look at friends differently. Like, who are the people that call or that are always there when things go right? He said, because there are a lot of people that are addicted to almost, like, the toxicity of. They like, when things go wrong, they like to be the person that's there. It's like they pick up the pieces. And he said, there's a lot of people like that. He said, how many people would you call and say, I accomplished, like, I don't know. Name something.
I ran a race, and I was number. I did an ultra marathon, and I was first overall. Like, how many people would you call to say that? And he's like. Cause, you know, you worry about bragging or coming off in a particular way. He's like, I probably. When I look at it, I have about ten to 15 friends that are gonna be. I know will be there on a bad day. He's like, I probably have, like, four that I would call if something really amazing happened. I had to call him right away and say, listen to what I did. Yeah, he said. So I started thinking about friends differently. Like, who's there when things are really great and who do I want to pick up the phone and call right away?
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great point, because you're right. And also, there are. If there is that misery loves company, there are people that do. I don't know. I mean, it's probably part this fixer mentality, right? I mean, we know people that just love being. I'll use the term the nurse, if you will. Right. It could be male, could be female. It doesn't matter. There are male nurses, but they just, you know, they've got to swoop in and save the day or take care of the person in that regard. And that's really attractive to them. And I don't know if it validates them or there's value to it, but clearly it's doing something or you wouldn't do it.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I think if you can find people in your life that a. Can truly celebrate your achievements and when you're doing good, no resentment, no jealousy, none of that. Like, true celebration, true support, that's really special and really powerful and impactful in your life.
And then I think you also. If you can find people in your life that tell you, like, you can. You can do more, you can work harder, because we most of the time have people saying, like, you're doing a great job or, you know, make you work 18 hours a day, like, take a break or find work. Life balance. Like, who are the people in your life? Like, Mick, you're doing good, but you can do more, right? Very few people have the.
I was gonna say balls, so I'm just gonna say balls. Balls work to tell you that and to show up because they care and they see more.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: Okay. When YouTube doesn't push this episode, it's you today. I'm very clear about that.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: So what?
But truly, like, can you think of. I can't think of a ton of people in my life that would tell me, after working hard, like, you can work harder, right? So, like, if you can find.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: If you can find a group of people that aren't afraid to tell you that and can see more in you and push you like, that really, really honest friend that a lot of people are gonna hate because they're right. But if you can find that, like, wow, I think that is, again, so powerful.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Very hard to find.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I was thinking about, too, when we were. This is going back a little bit when you were talking about when you were younger and how committed you were and all of that negative energy because you didn't know how to control it. Right. Because you were probably reacting and not responding when you were younger and reacting to it. The idea would be so, yes, that loss and whatever led up to it creates energy. There is an energy creation there. The magic becomes what you do with it, what you do with that energy and how you take it and you deploy it into a different direction. And that's an interesting, I was thinking about too, when we were talking this difference between lose and fail. And we can get into this on another topic. Are lose and fail exactly the same thing? I'm not sure if they are.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: I mean, I perceive fail in a more positive light than lose because.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: But why?
[00:38:30] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Let's build that out.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: I'm not sure what the actual definitions would be in the dictionary for that.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make a note for a future podcast. We can do some research. And I was really just thinking about how society experiences those words. Which one I pick for one, right? I didn't fail the game.
Yeah, I didn't fail the game. But what's the difference between those two and what's the appropriate use? Because, you know, now there's this whole movement to celebrate failure. Yes, you must fail, fail, fail, fail.
But if I put lose in there, you'd be like, oh, hell no. Even though they're very, they have a very similar look a lot of the time. Do I, do I pick one or the other to feel I'm like, no, no, no, I just failed. And everybody likes that.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Is it literally just how societies position those words?
[00:39:19] Speaker B: This is the shit that goes on when I talk to you for an hour. Don't you know that yet?
[00:39:22] Speaker A: Yeah, but I mean, we both have the exact same thought.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll work on it.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Thinking about that next one, since we have the couch out today.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: Well, what, what else we got on this? Refuse to lose? This has been great. I, these are, these are my favorites, you know, for the viewers. Sometimes we come in crazy prepared. Other times we're, you know, we have a topic and we, you know, let it marinate for a second and then I pound into the room after a wild beginning to the day and get after it.
[00:39:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I have one question for you. So in this, in your world of building your refuse to lose mentality and approach to life in the world, and we just talked about surrounding yourself with people that are going to have that same mentality in a company as the size of yours, which is pretty large, how important is it in your hiring process or your building people process that you're building people with the same mentality inside your organization. Is that something you're thinking about? Is that something you're looking for as it relates just to business, not your friend group, just business?
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Yeah. If I think about our values for a second, one of them is commitment. So I would probably, if I had to pick one of the value words that we really, we use and value. Ken, I don't think you can use value and value, but whatever, it would be commitment. So, yes, certainly standing those values up, one of which is commitment. But I will just say that it's not necessary that we are, you know, that we refuse to lose at the same things. Right. Or that we're committed to the exact same things. To the contrary. I mean, yes, overarching. Whatever the mission is, of course, we all have to be committed to that. But when you break that down and you start coming down into different areas of the business, then I'm looking for that same level of commitment. But it doesn't have to be for the exact same thing. Like, I'm looking for Tommy to be relentless and committed to his craft. His craft and my craft are different. So if Tommy's interviewing or looking to come into the organization, what I'm looking for is a alignment of values. That word commitment would be there. But I'd be looking for Tommy to be relentless at whatever his superpowers are, his ability to edit and create graphics and storytell and all the things that he's so much better at than I am. My skill sets are different. Right. So I think, yes, looking for that level of commitment, tenacity, relentlessness.
But I think that even too much overlap. I mean, how many first basemen do you need and how many tight ends do you need on one team? I'd be looking for a comper. Like you said, when you get to that level, you're one of the very few that elevated or escalated out of the groups. Right?
Rec ball, then you played club ball, then you played college ball, right? And there's a thinning of the herd at every single level, and only the best of the best of the best survive when you get there. So, of course, everybody has the same tenacity, and you guys are committed exactly with the same tenacity and relentlessness to the mission of winning. But you, as a forward, might be relentless about something a little different than the left, back, right, the person exactly opposite you on the field. So that's. That's how I feel about that, or that's how I would approach, or how I do approach.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think what I was getting at is, and I agree on the soccer pitch or on the sports pitch, like those.
Everybody has that for the most part, that, like, relentless mentality, or at least that was my experience. But when I'm in business, I'm not sure it's the same. And I'm saying this for people that are building companies or building teams inside an organization and thinking to themselves, do I have a team of absolute killers that refuse to lose?
Because, as I mentioned, I think it was last episode when we were having our team meeting about values, they were like, we all decided that I'm very intense, and they did not. Intensity did not resonate with them and their personalities. So I think it's really important to. And that's not to say that my teammates aren't relentless or they don't refuse to lose, but our character is, like, we are tenacious and intense and type A and OCD and, like, just everybody knows what our mission is, and we're gonna, like, run through a wall that is not. You don't need a team of that, or you don't need an organization. In fact, I think it would be a horrific, chaotic mess if you had that.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: So you can be relentless or dedicated and super committed and consistent in what you would do in a quiet way, or do you know what I'm saying?
[00:44:43] Speaker B: We have those players, so I know. Exactly.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: We do. And I really want to hone in on this, because I just don't think who we are as people is necessary for an entire company or even good for an entire company.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: No. And nor does that pretend to be leadership. And I'll give you an example.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: It doesn't.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: You know, Alfonso, our director of engineering, quiet demir, even. Right. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, that's just how he shows up. He does not have to be loud or verbose to be effective. And a leader, you know, the definition of a leader is you have followers. I watch it. I mean, I watch his team, and I watch how they. How attracted they are to him, what he knows, what he does. His leadership style, definitely different than me. Certainly different than you, but absolutely as valuable, for sure. And I would even say different. Valuable as valuable just at a skillset that's a little different than mine.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Right. So I think we've got to recognize that. And I don't even think everybody has to be quite as. As we keep using the word relentless, but I don't even think you have to have a team of everybody that's relentless. I think a team is a well balanced mix of people that can work really well together and get the job done right. So. And that's gonna look different inside every organization. And us as leaders, that's our responsibility to figure that perfect mix and balance out.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: Right. How do you create, how do you create the right group of people that collectively will refuse to lose?
[00:46:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think a lot of times the person, the leader or the person at the top, if you will, is going to be a lot of times they are going to be that relentless, run through wall type of personality. I think you're going to find that more times than not.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: But not loud. That doesn't mean loud. Just don't.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: It does. It can, but it doesn't. It can be, but it's up to the in situation. That's us. But it's us. It's up to us to find the right group of people to get the job holistically as a team, done, as.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Is our listeners, the ones that are listening, that are in leadership roles. That is the joke.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: That's why I wanted to bring that and also bringing up for people that are like, that's not me. Like, I don't identify with that, but I'm a super effective and efficient and excellent, excellent at what I do.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you so much for listening to love and business podcast. We appreciate you coming along for the journey. Quick reminder again to hit that subscribe button.
[00:47:18] Speaker A: That's what I was gonna say.
[00:47:20] Speaker B: I guess we're done then.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: See ya.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: Welcome to Ace, Rodney. Rodney touch for the Silver Stars tonight. Tonight's guest, incredible, credible.
