SECRET'S OUT! We Started A NEW BUSINESS! | S1E4

[00:00:10] Speaker A: I think it would be fun to talk about the other business we have. Mick Brentures. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll agree. I agree. I think especially how it came about. We'd always talked about it, but like most things, the pandemic pushed us into motion faster. [00:00:29] Speaker A: I mean, I think we would have done it either way, but I think faster than we would have. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Doing it. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. So, just rolling back 2020, I had gone to California to start up an automation project, actually, even back a little further. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Well, first of all, we have been talking about it for the. Let's talk about the intent first, which was we have all these creative aspirations and ventures that we wanted to do outside of the umbrella of Tagler construction, supply, and Arnold, because they were either different or just outside of that that we could pursue together personally. So that was the initial concept. And I think, you know, we talked about it briefly and then didn't really do anything with it. And then enter California. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Right. I think it also goes back to the idea that somehow we picked up this Douchey Hollywood name that we gave ourselves, which is what makes it Douchey, and called McBritt. And then we had some cocktails that we named after it along the way. And I think it only seemed natural that our business would be called McBritt. And then I remember trying to figure out what went on the end and trying to come up with a tag that made sense. How could it be flexible? And if we went in a real estate direction, how would it work? Or if we went in an entertainment direction, voila. How would it work? All encompassing and all encompassing. And we finally came down on McBritt Ventures was the name that we decided to go with. And I think no sooner than we get it figured out and incorporated, which you, of course, did all the work on the incorporation, like you always do. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Well, the great thing about bootstrapping a business, especially fairly recently, relatively speaking, is that I had to do all that myself and figure it out. So I remember so vividly, like, this is exactly the steps. Here's what I should have done that I didn't done, that I didn't do, that I really messed up. And then, two, it certainly makes it a lot easier that we already have our resources, our war room, as we refer to them, to help us. So it was as easy as going to my CPA, who we know, who's a friend, not just a war room. A friend and an ally and a consultant and them helping. So, yeah, a so fresh in my mind how to do it. So it was easy I mean, starting an LLC, most people don't know, it's a few clicks of a button. It really is that easy. You want to do it right, but it is so easy to do. And then pulling in our team. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And not for the faint of heart, too. That's a great touch in just in that. Yes, it is easy. And having started some llcs along the way, I remember my high school, budy and I had aspirations to start the first platform for buying and selling packaging machinery. And I knew the market and we were starting to take back some equipment. And he had enough knowledge where actually started a company called Eagle Systems. And we built a story and then we built out a website. And the idea, this is probably 15 years ago, a long time before this was really on anyone's radar, I think. And where we were just opened up a marketplace for other distributors like us to post packaging machinery. And the idea was to be able to move it back and forth between each other. I needed a used case sealer or whatever the different packaging machines were. And we actually sold some memberships, we got some memberships, sold to distributors and opened up the marketplace. And I just remember how hard it was to herd distribution. I mean, I know manufacturers say we're like herding cats, and they're right. I mean, distribution is like herding cats and dealing with some of the older salespeople in the market and trying to get them in tune with posting machines and keeping them updated. And then we'd get an order for a machine and it would already be sold and nobody updated it. So we basically started what would be a used car looking site and system that dealers could move. But then with no updating and no attention and high levels of frustration, I think that just died a silent death. But my point is that once you get on the radar, then you have personal property tax and you have any number of things that you're responsible for that you're officially on the grid and it's just a commitment that you can't take lightly. You don't just say, hey, I got a business. Well, then there's taxes and there's any number of things that you're responsible for. And if you don't, then you open yourself up to audits and any number of pieces. So easy to start, but you're definitely a certain level of commitment you want to pay attention to prior to doing that. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's one of my favorite things right now, is unfortunately, I really don't have the time to do it. But one day I will. I will make the time, and that is to help people start these llcs. Specifically, I try to help a lot of women that are starting businesses. But yes, while the llcs, I'm like, oh, by the way, there's a lot of implications that come with this. It's not just like I have a business. Yay. By the way, if you're not profitable, you're going to end up losing money with all the fees and everything that comes along with it. I remember my first business, which I didn't have an LLC, nothing like that, was a fitness business. And I gave out x workout plans and nutrition, and then I started getting into making ebooks about how to bake healthy desserts. I still have the website up. I sold quite a few. [00:06:03] Speaker B: There you go. [00:06:03] Speaker A: The desserts were horrible. I remember I've eaten the stuff you eat most of. [00:06:09] Speaker B: It's horrible. [00:06:09] Speaker A: Well, my palate acclimated, but. [00:06:13] Speaker B: What, did you kill it? [00:06:14] Speaker A: My parents try it. [00:06:15] Speaker B: It turned dead. [00:06:16] Speaker A: Well, when you cook with protein powder, it's disgusting. But my palate was so just like, I was so used to it, I didn't realize. And I remember I have my parents or sister taste us and they're like, this is good. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. When I trust that stuff with you, I feel like when I spit it out, there should be like a piece of bark laying on the table. [00:06:34] Speaker A: But I wasn't trying to fool anybody. I really thought it was good. The pictures looked good at least. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Well, you had kept that from your body for so long, it didn't know the difference anymore. Imagine if you ate like a cookie or something. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Oh, when I do, it's best day of my life anyway. [00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So that was all part of you starting a business that made terrible desserts. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that was my starting to, I guess you could say entrepreneurship, but without doing the LLC. But my real point was most people have to realize what comes with just starting an LLC. It's not just that there's so much more to. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Right, right. You just don't get to write things off, the consequences. You don't just pick up every dinner tab going forward because you get to, quote unquote, write things off, which might be. [00:07:17] Speaker A: That's actually a good point. And I don't even know what the percentage now is for entertainment that you can write off. It's almost nonexistent now it's 50%. Is it still 50? [00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but by the time you work it down and work it down, I think it ends up being $0.17 on. [00:07:30] Speaker A: The dollar because that just changed. A couple of years ago, because I remember when I first started the business, you could write off more of an entertainment. I don't know if it's entertainment, if that's what it's. But food, drink and whatever that was. And since it's definitely decreased in percentage. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Not as easy as it used to be. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:48] Speaker B: So anyway, back to mickbridventures. I think we digressed onto all of our other failed businesses. [00:07:53] Speaker A: Well, it's amazing. [00:07:54] Speaker B: I still get some mail every once in a while to eagle systems, which is pretty funny, that is. And I still have a little glass eagle that I bought myself as a signature for it in the, I don't know, ten months that existed. [00:08:06] Speaker A: I'm sure somewhere along the way you used a lesson or two. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. There was the other one called package the planet that failed. My budy and I tried to do that, too. Probably in the, I don't know, mid 90s, early. Early. Yeah, that failed, too. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Maybe one day we'll revive one of those. [00:08:21] Speaker B: Well, I think the hard part is that you have to have a certain amount of know how. And that was pretty early, too. I think that was mid 90s or maybe late 90s without the technology and. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Being able to speed to market and all. It's so much different. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The tools didn't look anything like they do now, but certainly we saw what this online marketplace could be. But Arnold packaging wasn't Arnold's factory supplies at that time. We weren't nearly big enough to execute on it. And I think we saw the promise, but didn't have any idea how to build out the infrastructure that it would take to be a big online packaging presence. There's lots of challenges with freight and any number of things that we didn't have. I don't know, enough resources. And at the same time, too, my dad had just died, so there was limited bandwidth. Like, I was trying to make sure that Arnold's factory supplies wasn't going to fail, let alone jump into some Internet startup thing. So again, lessons learned. All kinds of great lessons learned. But another fail. I mean, I think everyone thinks that you just sit around and bat a thousand all the time and. Not true. You still have a website for horrible desserts. I still have an online site for machines that there are no machines on. So, yeah. [00:09:40] Speaker A: The only other point before we finally get to the California point we've referenced is I was listening the other day to a podcast talking about, and this is probably a very widely used term that I'm just not familiar with, which was entrepreneur do you know what that is? I don't. I didn't know what it was. And it's basically an entrepreneurial person inside of a corporation. So someone who would have a creative idea such like you're talking about, but do it execute inside the umbrella of Arnold packaging. Of course it would be a team decision, but I'm like, that's a really great model for a lot of people that I don't want to start a business. I can't, I don't have the time or it's just not like I'm not interested. But I have such a creative thirst or ideas and all this stuff that I want to execute on, that's probably the best way to do it, is if it's something that your team supports in while you have the resources and the foundation. And I was thinking, wow, if you could get a team together, that's like a bunch of entrepreneurs while you're all working towards the same core ideas and things. But then everybody has. Not everybody. Some people have these peripheral, really great ideas to supplement the core business. That's really cool. And I always think about, because selfishly, I don't want my employees to leave. I want them to stay here. So I think opening that option up is a really good way to make sure they can pursue what they want and be able to be creative. And then it helps everybody. So just like entrepreneurship, I was like, wow, I've never really haven't thought much about that. [00:11:11] Speaker B: So, Tommy, shout out, make sure Thursday we talk about have a Arnold packaging has an emerging thought leaders, which Tegler participates in, too. An emerging thought leaders group that we get together every couple of months. It's the younger or less experienced people in our organization. I think they range now from age 23 to 24 to 34, something like that. And we go all over the map. I know this week we're going to talk about routines and what does your routine look like and how does it lend itself to your preparation and what is your preparation ultimately leading up towards what type of a goal or outcome? And we tend to use a lot of sports analogies in our company or military analogies. And sports is always fascinating. We've talked about that on the podcast a bunch, but just that preparation piece. And what does your routine, your prep, what does all that look like? So I think we'll weave in entrepreneurship. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Can I just insert one more thing about that? Are you staying on the entrepreneurship? [00:12:12] Speaker B: Go ahead. Yeah. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Similar. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Well, I was just going to say what an awesome opportunity. If you're like, listen, you have unlimited growth opportunity in every way. If you come up with this idea again, it's complementary. We know. I don't have to reiterate that it's got to be good for the business and everybody involved. We know that. But it's like, yeah, you grow this baby and we all help, and then it's your thing. And literally unlimited growth, you can financially growth whatever that looks like. And at the end of the day, it could be like something. Okay, well, you still have to do your job over here. Well, this really takes off. Now we have the opportunity to backfill you like that model and something like that. But everybody has to be really bought in and supporting that. But I just think that's such an amazing model for a company that really buys in and follows something like, I. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Mean, certainly we're looking for investment opportunities all the time. So I would view that in the same way. I was with a company today called Heirs and a guy named Drake who went to Penn, played the cross there, went to the financial route, worked in New York, and decided that he just didn't want to do that anymore. He wanted to be an entrepreneur. Yeah, it must sound like entrepreneur lawyer. Yeah. [00:13:29] Speaker A: I say the opposite. [00:13:32] Speaker B: He went into, got a start, worked with some people, and now he's bootstrapping his own business, doing third party logistics. And in talking to him today, we can contribute by discounting his packaging materials. I offered to hold his receivables for 60 or 90 days. My question to him was, how are you doing on cash? And he said, well, it's tough because I'm shipping things, and FedEx wants to get paid weekly and ups wants to get paid weekly. And when you're bootstrapping it, you don't have any credit. And when you miss a payment, they'll turn off your shipping services. And it's hard to be a three pl if you don't have shipping services. So my conversation around him was, talk to me about your cash flow and how do you get these guys paid weekly. And FedEx wants to be paid weekly. And he said, it's difficult. And we talked about banks and banking options local. It's never been harder to get money than it is right now. I mean, your lines of credit, if you have prime, are up to six and a half or 7%. That's if you've got a fortress balance sheet, let alone being a new company or a startup. You talk about selling the vision to M and T. Really? And I've told him your story on his warehouse floor today and said you're going to have to get them to buy into the vision. They're going to have to buy into Drake, and you're going to sign your life away in the process. Right? You're going to collateralize on whatever stuff you have, and if you blow it, they're going to take it. And so those are like things we can do. And I said, I'll give you terms on your packaging. You get paid by your customers before you pay us for packaging. So there's some things that we can do. And I would take that same model into that entrepreneurship, whether it was, sure, use our resources. We're not here. Two shifts in manufacturing and one shift in distribution. So you need some floor space if you want to come in here and grind it out and get after it on your own time. Our building is sitting here doing nothing. Why wouldn't you use it? Or why wouldn't we figure something out? Provided you can do it safely and return it in shape. You'll never hear a peep out of me. As early as we get here, we'd probably head out and do some of whatever they're doing on a particular day. [00:15:41] Speaker A: No, I love it. And because it's a good small segue, I will give that story just for anybody that is in the position of bootstrapping a business where they just simply don't have the cash or the history. So when you're doing that, as anybody in that position knows, it's pretty much not impossible, but very challenging to get anybody to lend money to you. You're like, okay, I have no money, but I need money to do everything I need to do to buy the product I'm going to sell or whatever that looks like. So something I always keep in mind, even to this day, especially when things are seem intimidating or far fetched, it's like the person sitting across from the table from you, whether it's a banker or a lawyer or a CEO, they're a person, and they have all the same human emotions and feelings that you do. And at the end of the day, people are making decisions based off of a lot of that. So what I first did was I went to all kinds of banks. I got no's across board. Even from the smallest local bank in Baltimore, I got a no. And they claim they special, which they do. They specialize in supporting minority and women owned business. They've been trying to get my business for the last five years. Well, they have for the last five years, which is like the sweetest revenge ever, but, yeah, so they totally turned me down and the one bank, m t bank, that said yes. I was the first startup that banking team decided to partner with in Lemwith that entire year. And it was just about selling my vision and really believing it and coming in confident, but I had nothing to show for it. Literally nothing. I had one project, and the only reason I met these guys was because they were the banking team for my customer, and my customer didn't want to deal with. It's like, can you just connect direct with my bank? And I was like, sure. And then I just created a rapport with them, and that's how that even became. But I just remembered they're people. I've got to sell them on what I see for the future. And that led to a $50,000 line of credit and a $50,000 term loan. I was like, hell, yeah, this is the best. [00:17:45] Speaker B: What can I do with this? Honda. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Well, the other thing, too, is not only that, you have to get that person ignited, because they're going to go pitch to an underwriting committee, a loan committee. So I'm sure many people across the table, they have all the best intentions. They're jazzed about what you told them, and then they go to somebody that's in the back office of the bank, they didn't hear the pitch, they didn't see the look on your face, and they look at papers and numbers and poo poo the Deal. I'm sure that happens on a fair occasion. And there's a whole timing component, too. I find that banks go in waves where it's, oh, well, let's act more philanthropically with our lending, or the way we're approaching loans, or let's get invested in a particular group or type of individual or business or whatever it is. So some of it's about walking through the door or kicking the door down at the appropriate time when they're favorable to that particular type of deal or company or whatever they're targeting at that moment. Because you know as well as I do, 40 grand for the assets that these banks have under management. And now that they're all wrapping up buying each other up, there just aren't that many little banks anymore. So $40,000 is like a rounding error, but not when you're trying to start a business like you did. Or like talking to Drake today, who's got demand, and he can't create supply because he doesn't have money to feed the supply. And that's frustrating. [00:19:13] Speaker A: You got to walk in the door, like you said, though. You got to kick the door down, you have to go. And then the other. I didn't even use that money. I didn't have to. What I did was because I couldn't get credit established with any of the vendors or manufacturers we were trying to buy from. So I couldn't get 30 net, yet my customers are paying me in 60 days. So do that math. It doesn't really work out of cash in a hurry. Yeah, exactly. So I had one vendor, which obviously my uncle operates, and so I used their infrastructure, I leaned on it, and I leveraged that, and they were essentially my bank. I don't think they knew it at the time, really, what I was doing, but they were the one that extended me terms. I utilized those terms to get up and running, and that's how I mean entirely leveraged the infrastructure of another company to get my company up and running. And it worked. And they were taking a chance on me, too. It's like all these people that, in hindsight were taking a massive chance, and now we do millions and millions of dollars together. So it paid off in the end. But again, it's like getting these people to give you a shot, but you won't get the shot if you don't knock on the door. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And you have to be aggressive about it. Not dick aggressive, but appropriately aggressive or intentional or whatever that would feel like, man. Because if you're just selling the vision and it's yours, it's hard to get people to sign on for. Like you're committed to it already because you just sold everything you own or turned off your cable like you did, or whatever you're doing from a sacrifice perspective. And we talked about sacrifice, and one of our other episodes was, what would you mean that sacrifice component is legit? I think it's interesting, too. We talk. You're more of a podcast person. I'm more of a real time consumer of news, like CNBC or whatever, and listening to the podcasts. There's lots of interesting wish. I wish there were more features of failures, right? I mean, unfortunately, to get on a lot of podcasts, at least they made it once. They might be like us, talking failures. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Totally. [00:21:24] Speaker B: But I don't know that most of the podcast platforms are saying, show me all the people that lost everything. But it would be great. It would be interesting to talk to them. Usually by the time you talk to them, they've lost everything once or twice, and now they're back telling the story. But, man, what about some of the ones that lost all of it once and did not have whatever it was going to take to get a chance at two or three or there's a great saying in the venture capital world that they won't give you any money until you've lost all of someone else's money. And that's very true. [00:21:57] Speaker A: And that's across any platform. Right. Like, who's going on CNBC? And they're highlighting or anything anywhere. And there's graveyards of failed businesses everywhere, I think. What's the statistic on? I don't know what the exact statistic is beyond five years. And then how many companies make it over 5 million, 10 million? I mean, it's just really low statistics. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Yeah. It's competition anywhere. As you get higher and deeper into it, it gets thinner and thinner and thinner at the top. So anyway, back to myth brick venture. [00:22:31] Speaker A: That was only a 20 minutes. [00:22:35] Speaker B: We digress. We're like 25 or 30, but, yeah, because we have lots of business stuff to talk about. Failures and some sicks and then all kinds of work in process, too. [00:22:46] Speaker A: No, we hadn't even started the LLC yet, but we had this concept, like, yeah, we want to do this. We think this would be great. We don't do anything else with it until we were not forced but pushed were in. [00:22:59] Speaker B: I know we had a business trip into Mexico, and we were coming back, and I remember the woman in customs said, have you been in China? And I thought, no, and who cares? Well, now I know why she cared. [00:23:13] Speaker A: When was that again? [00:23:14] Speaker B: It was January of 2020. [00:23:16] Speaker A: Okay. January of 2020, yeah. [00:23:17] Speaker B: And then we had just sent a team to California to open up an automation project, and they were on site, back and forth. I think on day four or so, they showed up, and the guard said, I'm sorry, you can't come in without masks. No one had any idea what was going on. And I think, if I recall, because know Asia and its proximity to California, they were getting hit first, and that was moving its way east along the way. So only because we had a team on site that couldn't come in without masks. I remember our project manager scrambling around, trying to go to the Walmart bandanas, anything. No one had any idea what was going on. And Colin Jesian, one of the more resourceful people in the world, I think, who still knows every person he's ever met in his entire life. He's had a guy, like, he always had a buddy somewhere. And this particular time, he had someone in California that was making uniforms, and they had already been shut down, and they had converted their uniform manufacturing plant into a mask manufacturing plant. So Colin hopped in his car, drove to LA, picked up enough masks, I think it was 36 masks, and raced them back. So they got on site, did their thing that day. So Colin was telling me the story, which I immediately brought home to you, and masks and so on and so forth. And that's when it started. [00:24:41] Speaker A: I remember those original masks that he got. They were white. They looked like diapers on the face. [00:24:45] Speaker B: They did. And they were cotton. [00:24:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. They were horrific. It's the first we had ever seen him. [00:24:51] Speaker B: And you couldn't breathe wrong. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Well, I remember saying, well, I'm not worried about it. It's not going to happen in Maryland. And then a month or so later, the governor came out with. Right. Something along those lines. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Well, I flew out to California to check in, and while I was in the air, Governor Hogan shut the state. [00:25:06] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:06] Speaker B: So I flew from California to the couch and then promptly sat on the couch for 14 days. [00:25:11] Speaker A: So what inspired us to eventually get into the mass business was we were both essential businesses, manufacturing and construction. And I know from construction, all my customers were working, even though they were working outside at that time, everybody needed mass and they were working in close quarters. There was not the six foot rule ever in construction. It doesn't work. So all these guys and gals needed masks to be able to continue the jobs in the field. So we were, well, let's. We know we've got somebody in California. Let's start buying masks. And that's exactly what we did. We started buying masks in bulk. Remember, we didn't even know if people were going to buy them. Let's get them for our customers. We're suppliers. This is what we do. We know how to get things out and it would help our customers. So we reached out to all of our customers and we were doing bulk orders. And remember how expensive those damn things were? They were crazy expensive. [00:26:05] Speaker B: They were nice. They were nice math. [00:26:07] Speaker A: So we thought, I mean, now, I don't know if any of them did anything, but at the time, we really. Yeah, it is of then. So it was the white mass, and then they slowly transitioned into the solid navy. So we had two choices. We sold the ones from California for. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Quite a while until we sold out their plant. [00:26:26] Speaker A: We sold out their plant. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah, they made us. So I think the cool part about one of the things that I felt great about and in the moment we were posting to social media and people really didn't know where to go. There was a supply issue with these types of typical civilian masks going to the store, wherever you were going, where you had to get some type of face cover that was reasonable, somewhat comfortable. And I remember those guys telling us that they were able to bring back everyone that they had laid off from their uniform plant, came back to work as a byproduct of the masks we were selling. They were selling them on the west coast. So that was a great outcome that made me feel good about being able to get those folks back in. And who knew? I remember that time, too. We had some side bets on when the world would reopen. And I was June. [00:27:14] Speaker A: I remember June. You said June 1, right? [00:27:17] Speaker B: I said June 30, 2020. Yeah. [00:27:19] Speaker A: I'm so glad we didn't know. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Whoops. Or didn't bet anything of any value. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we did. But we were both so far off, nobody could win. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Two years later, and then. I know we sold them out. So, fortunately, we got contacted from a guy in Jersey who. Same thing, uniform plant laid everybody off. I think he saw some of our social media and said, well, I can do this, too, and we're more local. [00:27:45] Speaker A: You don't have to pay for all the freight. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And I remember driving up on a Saturday to Edison, New Jersey. He left a mask behind the trash, and we were digging around behind the trash can trying to find the mask. [00:27:55] Speaker A: We're like, it's got to be quality. We can't sell it if it's not quality. And he did, between reducing freight costs and everything else, he came in about half the price of what we were buying in California and custom. [00:28:08] Speaker B: And that was just the mode that we took. Right. Branding masks in small quantities, the way. [00:28:15] Speaker A: You put it, was, okay, if we're going to sell masks, which sucks, and nobody wants to wear them, let's at least make an extension of your brand. It's on your face. What better branding than looking at someone's face and seeing it just like, that's pretty cool. And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, we could do, was it like next day or. No, not next day. It was like three to four days. Customization of different colors. We had the two different panels, and then all of a sudden, these masks were really neat, and people were just getting into it from a branding perspective. So then we had some companies that were buying them by the thousands, some larger companies that they had service teams. [00:28:52] Speaker B: They had service teams. [00:28:53] Speaker A: Two or three. Yeah. So we created challenging time, but it was really fun doing that together. And then also getting into when everybody started opening up, not opening up, but bringing people back slowly. Everybody needed the thermometers, the infrared thermometers. So that was our first introduction to internationally importing, which we hadn't really had much at all experience with. [00:29:21] Speaker B: No, very little. [00:29:22] Speaker A: So working with a broker, that was really good at that. So that was great. From a learning perspective of dealing with tariffs and all that stuff that comes with importing and exporting, that was a great lesson. And I think we helped a lot of people who sold through those thermometers as well, because they were impossible to get at that time, or super, I remember on the Amazon wars or wherever that these things were going for gross money, but it's the only way people could get them. So we're like, let's bulk import them at a reasonable price. I mean, they're way cheaper now, but at that time. And we can give that to our customers as well. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that was great. Yeah, that was a great experience. So, mickbridventures, that was the launch. That was the launch of mickbridventures. [00:30:10] Speaker A: How many mass? [00:30:12] Speaker B: 300,000? 400,000? [00:30:14] Speaker A: It's something wild, something like that. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it was pushing half a million when it finally slowed down, and I think we had to get back to our real jobs. The world was reopened. And yeah, I remember some of the late orders where it was all, man, this is ever going to try. [00:30:29] Speaker A: It was weird because it's one of those businesses we were hoping went under, failed as soon as possible. [00:30:35] Speaker B: All too happy to stop selling masks. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. [00:30:38] Speaker B: But it was great. As much time as whether you had to quarantine or if someone had the sniffles. And when you go to the couch for 14 days, I mean, that kept us going a lot. I remember sitting on the couch and each of us fell into our own piece. I handled the Pos, you generally handled the sales, and it was never a conversation about it. We just dropped into our thing. We never had a structural meeting about it. I just picked up on the pos and you ran the social piece, drove the sales side. You were front of house, I was back of house, which is pretty funny. [00:31:08] Speaker A: And we go package them at the warehouse on the weekends together. Bulk package, get them out. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Fun and funny. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So that was the start. And then we've done a couple of other things since, one of them being getting into real estate a bit now. I think that's something that we will probably do a little bit more. At least I'm interested. We talk about it a lot, but the easiest way to get into that was again, like we always do. Who do we know that we could work with and invest in? That's in the real estate and they're the expert, but we can be a part of it. So that's when we started working with my cousin who has different real estate portfolios in actually now a lot of different places, but the majority in Delaware. And we started looking investing in some of those properties and portfolios. We're in three, three or four now. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Sounds right. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's been fun getting to see and just in the early stages. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And something we know nothing about. I think that's the coolest part about being involved or investing in certain ways. And it's not like we are at least arm's length and then some, because we absolutely know what we don't know and that's real estate for sure. But I think that's the cool part about being around these businesses and listening and trying to understand there's so many different businesses now, what technology has done in just opening up all of these different lanes. I think the saying is something like, I don't know, half of the jobs that we have now didn't exist ten years ago. I would be curious to see fast forward ten years to 2033 if that number isn't even bigger. With what we're seeing with AI and some of these other, what do the next half of jobs that don't exist right now look like ten years from now? Or maybe it's five years from now, half of today's jobs don't exist. So that piece is super interesting. And all of the information, just the industries that are being spun up out of all of this new demand that nobody even saw coming, is really fascinating to watch unfold. I mean, we're in the more durable side, lumber and plywood and construction materials, cardboard boxes and shipping materials, but the tech side is fascinating. And then us watching to understand how it's going to influence change and likely disrupt our space to make sure that we understand it and not just where the puck is going, but be standing there waiting for it, if we were able to do it correctly. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Another one that just came to mind is restaurants. So we know hospitality, especially now, is a tough business, but we've always been interested in the hospitality space, know nothing about it, don't have the time to do it. But some of our friends are great at what they do, and it's been an opportunity to also invest in some of their new ventures. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they've hit on some great concepts and they're good operators, too. You have to be a great operator. It's not just enough to have a cool thing, you actually have to be able to deliver on it as well. And I think there's any number of businesses that have that front piece. It's a great idea. And the number of entrepreneurial. So packaging is interesting in that way where people decide they're going to pursue a product, right, if we don't package services, but they have to be pursuing a product. Whether it's nope that we've talked about. One of the beverage companies, if they're pursuing a product, then at some point they're going to have to have packaging. And that's a cool way that we get to interact with entrepreneurs or new businesses. And there's a lot of them with great ideas. And it seems to be a natural or have a particular amount of demand, but you still have to execute. It's not enough to have a great idea. It's not even enough to identify a particular amount of demand. If you can't service it, then you still fail, too. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the other piece worth talking about is this is a really cool symbiotic relationship. And we're working with some friends on solar, and that's been really unique in that there's opportunity in that partnership for all three companies with Arnold Packaging and the logistics side from Tagler on supplying some of the equipment, and then McBritt Ventures on creating a lot of being a liaison with basically customers. [00:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Sales side. [00:35:44] Speaker A: Sales side. Yeah. So that's something that I love the idea of that, of seeing a useful function of all three companies, that's unique in itself that we're working on. We've been talking about that probably a year and a half now. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's interesting. Just solar. So just segueing away from that, too, just how business goes, where a year ago that was very exciting. And solar and sustainable energy and the way it ebbs and flows. I mean, now with the big concern about China in particular and where these panels are coming from, while sustainability is still critical, necessary, we have this road bump or block right now based on where the panels are made. It doesn't even have anything to do with sustainability or solar energy as a philosophy or a science or whatever you'd want to talk about that you think would be the block or the interruption in moving that energy as a technology. It's right now the political aspect of where the panels are made. And that's just an interesting part of business where you're going along. It looks like the world is getting smarter as it relates to renewables and trying to make choices and unbolting from fossil fuels where appropriate. You're not going to fly an airplane on solar, but what else can we do, right? Where is the right place to plug this in and through? No fault of solar zone, if you will. There's a political component that is keeping that business from moving and there will be failures because of it. Right. There'll be people that bought in two years ago and they didn't see this threat on the horizon of someone in Washington awakening and saying, wait a minute, where are those panels coming from again? And are they dumping them and are they subsidizing the dump of them? And now you've got a business owner that was on the know. They felt like they had critical mass and this type of disruption could possibly take them out. [00:37:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm also learning a lot about administrations, that even though the prior administration really wrote everything into law, new administration wants to take credit. Maybe it's something they support on a state level. And so now it's like they want to get this solar deal. Take, for example, Maryland, a new administration. Like they've been working on this for years, but it's just part of what politics looks like. Hey, look what we're bringing to the market or to Maryland. Yet this has been being worked on for previous administrations. Just all interesting and it's so political. And you want to believe that there's separation a lot of times between businesses, but there's just not. [00:38:31] Speaker B: It just say, too, that despite your best efforts, you might get taken out by something that's completely out of your control. [00:38:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:37] Speaker B: And you just get caught on the wrong side of it or you don't know the right people because that's absolutely a situation. And you get caught up and you just don't have the strength to endure it. Right. Whether it's cash or whatever, you would need to wait it out while Washington decides if those panels can come in. And you end up going under. And it's unfortunate, but that's not going. [00:39:01] Speaker A: To happen because we have a great solar partnership coming online. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, great executors, great business model. As long as things come in that aren't in our control. Sure. Absolutely. [00:39:18] Speaker A: So I think really when we're getting back to it, we've talked about all these various creative ventures, as I call them. So McBrit Ventures is really just a great opportunity for us to do all these things that we want to do that we a know nothing about. Or, I mean, some we do, but for the most part don't know anything about or simply don't have the time because all of our effort, all the time and commitment is to APC and TCs. So it's just a way to partner with people that are really good at doing other things. And we're like, that's really fascinating. I want to be a part of that. And getting the opportunity to do that with limited time. [00:39:58] Speaker B: Well, look, and also it's a way to protect the other two motherships. Right. If we're being pragmatic about it. Right. We have this other venture that we can invest time in and put funds and resources towards, but we can also do it while Arnold packaging and Tegler do what they do and be safe and not get into a liability situation. And that's been another great just talking to the audience. And the other reason to do that is because you do have a business venture that if something were to get horribly sideways, there is some protection. There's a protection aspect of that, too, that we've talked about at length. If we're going to get outside of our lane, then here's a great place to do it. Or it should live here. It shouldn't live in the golden gooses of Arnold's and Tegler, especially after the amount of time and energy. So that's another great byproduct of that type of adventure if someone's considering it or they've got a spouse and they've been talking about getting into business together. And it's a leap, but it's a hell of a lot of fun. [00:41:07] Speaker A: It is. But again, and I do want to reiterate, is we've got our experts from ABC and TCs who are keeping an eye on it from an accounting standpoint, a tax, it's, we have those, as we call them, blind spots covered, which is important. And so we have been pulling from the resources we already have, which is a differentiator and certainly makes it easier, at least a little bit more comfortable and less of a risk. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Well, look, I mean, whoever was doing it, you'd still want your own war room and you'd still need your blind spots watched. That could be a relative. That could be any number of people that are trusted advisors that simply have a different perspective from yours, which would be of huge value. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking about mitigating risk, I get the question a lot. Why don't you and Mick Merge? A lot of people that don't know exactly what we do and are on the outskirts either think we're running a business together, or, like, why don't you just run your businesses together? Why don't you APC or TCS? And I think that's. We talk about this all the time. You've got APC that's very successful in tcs, and they're two wholly different things. And we met while we had two very different things, and it worked. And I love that, that we have two different, very different, but synergistic entities. But that also, for us, is a way to mitigate risk. Hopefully, nothing happens to either. But if we're being realistic with changes, anything could happen. We just went through a pandemic. Clearly, we know there could be global change. Whatever happens, it's a good way to find some security. If something slows down or goes wrong, one of those businesses. And I think that's why it's just not something we would ever consider. But I do get that question a lot. Like, why don't you just run the business together? Yeah. [00:43:04] Speaker B: I think that idea of diversification, period. Right. Whether it's our two businesses, what I. [00:43:10] Speaker A: Tried to say, and you said it in one word. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah. That diversification would be important. Right. And diversified. I mean, not diluted. Right. But where you're very conscious about saying, you know what? I have enough eggs in this basket, and let me go ahead and try to develop something else and have it. That was my wife, widespread. Of course you don't understand. [00:43:33] Speaker A: You don't understand. [00:43:35] Speaker B: I don't even understand. [00:43:38] Speaker A: But yes. So I think that's important. And McBrit Ventures is just one extension, another extension of that. So, question for you, which I've never asked. Where do you see McBritt Ventures going? Is it just something that's going to organically move along as things develop? And you're like, wow, that's a good opportunity that's brought to you, or do you have any vision for it? [00:44:04] Speaker B: No, I don't. I think the biggest fight right now is time for both of us. I mean, I'd love to be able to have all the time in the world, but I don't know that I or we have ever found anything that way where we were out on an intentional hunt. Usually it's about doing what we do and doing it all in and also doing it without blinders on. Everyone would be like, you know, head down, blinders on. I completely mean, I think it's important you can go hard and still have your head on a swivel. And I think that's when those opportunities present, like masks. I mean, who knows? Were we looking for a mask business? No, a team in California got locked out because they didn't have masks, and it just happened to be moving from west to east, and we had just a little bit of a glimpse faster than the people in the local market, and we executed around it. So, I don't know. I think it's great that we have it there, and I know quickly. I think either one of us sees something that looks like it's out of the Tegler or Arnold Lane, and it's. That could be a McBride ventures thing that we would take a look at. And I just think until we're both in a growth and change structure in our businesses, but the second we get some excess time or some additional bandwidth, then I imagine we'll find ourselves heading in that direction like we have the pandemic made us, because our core business has slowed down pretty quick. And it was, I have to sit on the couch for 14 days. What am I going to do? And our answer is, duh, start a business. What else would you do if you had to sit on the couch for 14 days? You'd start a business? [00:45:39] Speaker A: Yeah, same exact answer. Like, I have no mission or goals. Mick Brit Ventures is not even being honest, not even on my mind. My only commitment is TCs and how we're going to grow that business and evolve. We just had a great meeting today of just changing everything, just processes and job roles and structure up today, which I'm really excited about after seven years. So that is my focus. And I think as we navigate through the TCs and APC world, that's where the opportunities come from. And one thing we talked about, we want to, if there is a great opportunity that's really brought to us, that's what it's been, falls into our lap that we can jump on it, because a lot of these things come and go so quickly that we have something in place so we can execute quickly. I think that's what McBrit Ventures serves right now. And, yes, down the line, we'll probably do some other stuff with it when we're in a different phase of our life, but right now, it's just sitting there. When these opportunities come, it's like, hell, yeah, I want to be involved. I don't have time. But you guys are really smart, and you know what you're doing, and we've got something in place to make it happen, right? [00:46:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And what resources do we have that might help propel it or whatever you're trying to do. I think it's smart. Don't create a business and find something to ram it into. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Doesn't a. That doesn't happen. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Better to identify a problem. And then as you evolve the solution, then you can figure out systematically where it belongs. It belongs at Tegler, it belongs at Arnold packaging. Or if it's an outlier or outside the lane, then we do have this other vehicle that we could put it in or park it in. But I think in general, I'm looking for problems and or demand and then seeing if there's a solution that we can generate with our skill sets. It's hard to get too far outside of your lane, but if it's in our lane or even on the edge. Right. I mean, certainly you got to nudge your lanes out at times and that's how you become something new and evolve. That's what I'm generally doing is looking for that need or that demand and then seeing if we have a superpower that will let us create an offering that fills it. [00:47:47] Speaker A: Well said. I couldn't have said it better. Yeah. So we'll see where it goes and next creative venture that comes up, if it does in the near future, something we can bring to the table and talk about. [00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah, look forward to it. We'll find it. It'll find us. Actually. I think it'll find us. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:05] Speaker B: But we'll be looking in the process. [00:48:07] Speaker A: So ending comment here. If somebody. I think our situation is a little unique, so I'm not sure how relevant. It's going to be a lot people, but it could even be just be like somebody that wants to do something on the side of their full time gig or just a solo business owner, whatever. Would you encourage them to like, hey, this might be something you could think about and it's worked for us. Set a little something up on the side. [00:48:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I think if there's a benefit to it, we hit on this in an earlier conversation. If you have a trusted partner, whether that be whatever, spouse, a relative, a childhood friend, whatever. If you have a trusted partner. [00:48:44] Speaker A: And supportive. Or supportive. And. Or. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Yeah, and or supportive. I mean, look, by virtue of having two, it means you have twice the bandwidth, which is helpful. Right. How do you get this thing off the ground, especially if you still have a job, right. If this has a side hustle feel to it and you have a partner or someone you can work on it together with. Now you're going to split the ownership, right. You're going to split. You're going to have half of a. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Stake in the organization or 51%. [00:49:09] Speaker B: Or 51%. Yeah, exactly. That's right. You're the majority shareholder in Nickprint ventures. Yes. Brilliant of us, but, yeah, I think that's great. I mean, we talked about the family component and the great parts, right? Trust. And there's some challenges with that, too. If it doesn't go well, then it can be horrible. You might wreck Thanksgiving dinner over it if it goes poorly. But, yeah, I would absolutely say, why not? I mean, why wouldn't you double your firepower, especially if you still have a job right where you're trying? Otherwise, you could be at it 24/7 if you have kids or something along those lines, that could be a great entree where the number of times we watch shark Tank, for example, and there's cousins or sisters or brother sister teams that have gone at it together, I think that's a great way to enter. It's also half the risk. So I think that could be a very measured way for any number of people. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Closing comment for me. I agree. And I think about that all the time. If we have something at McBrip ventures that hits or does really well, but all of a sudden we're like, oh, shit, we're in this thing. And it does require a little bit of time, but it's really good. Like being able to bring some family members or somebody that does have some free time, be like, hey, listen, this is an awesome opportunity. We've got this over here. Do you want to be a part of it? And I've already seen and had that in my head. I've talked about maybe this could be an opportunity where my sister or my mom might want to get engaged and we can pull them in. So that's always something because I love bringing in family or friends and getting them engaged and giving them opportunities. So that's something I think about that. I do think that will happen eventually. [00:50:45] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. That'd be great. That'd be an awesome outcome. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Nothing better than doing business with friends and family. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah, if it works, it's fantastic. [00:50:53] Speaker A: And your spouse? [00:50:55] Speaker B: Well, your spouse. I mean, my spouse, whatever. [00:50:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Anything else? [00:50:59] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. I think that's big fan. We'll talk a lot about this small business topic, but also, I think, calling out the important parts about what to watch for. We talked about sacrifice being a big one and something that's underestimated. Today we hit on more of the nuts and bolts, mechanical piece of starting a business, and it's not just as easy as whipping up an LLC to feel good about your name on the wall. There's a commitment as well. Sacrifice and commitment, two really big words in starting up a business that I think you have to measure and really be honest with yourself about. And if you don't know, then seek counsel. Right. Ask someone that you know that's been down the road before and get some honest counsel about what's this really going to look like if I take this jump, whether it's quit my job or whatever, that would be. What does it really look like? What's the sacrifice look like? What's the commitment look like? I mean, I've talked to friends. It's cost them marriages, time with their children, things that they didn't necessarily understand how all consuming that business could be, and they either had to make a choice where it was. I shut the business down because I wasn't willing to lose my family or do whatever, or they followed the business hard, and then there just wasn't enough bandwidth and the other side failed. So those are some of the pitfalls on that side that few people talk about, especially a lot of the press and celebratory things on podcasts or whatever, are for the people that made it. Some of those guys are on their 39th wife. There's collateral damage along the way that doesn't get talked about a lot because it's not comfortable. [00:52:37] Speaker A: Yeah. My goal today was even focusing less on that and APC and tcs and more on that supplementary business that we started getting just as an option. Just so the whole goal for me in all the episodes of this one is just to share, hey, this is what we did. This worked for us. It's something to think about. Just put other ideas in front of people, because so many people do things different ways, and, like, this has been pretty cool and fun and low stress and worked and, hey, here it is. Take it or leave it. But it's one way. It's one way. [00:53:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's great that we can share. I mean, we have lots of friends who have different experiences and kind of encounter different things, and we've also seen situations like this that didn't work out as well. I think it's important there's enough social media in the world only talking about wins. I think the losses are more valuable at times from a learning perspective.