HAPPINESS: How to Achieve & Sustain it | S1E16

[00:00:10] Speaker A: All right, here we go. Must be Tuesday. We're in the room. Yes, it is an afternoon, so we'll see how sharp we are today. [00:00:16] Speaker B: I'm not sharp right now. Yes, you are. I'm having a tough time with this one because I have so much on my mind. I love the pocket ass at the end because I feel good coming out. But coming in right now, I'm not going to lie to the listeners. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed right now. [00:00:32] Speaker A: That's right. Well, on your best day, you are still way better. [00:00:35] Speaker B: No, I'll push through it. I'll push through it. And I know this is very therapeutic for me, but it's also raw, too, right? [00:00:41] Speaker A: I mean, we have shitty days. [00:00:43] Speaker B: It's actually, like, challenging. It's been a heavy, really heavy day. [00:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:48] Speaker B: But it is what it is. We've made a commitment to this, which. [00:00:52] Speaker A: I love, and off to a good start, too. I mean, I do enjoy starting our podcast with some things that we've done recently. So obviously, we were at junior achievement together today, which is always a great group of people with, I think, a great cause and are getting it right a lot. We've both sat on lots of different nonprofits, and some of them show up as nonprofits exclusively. And that has one look versus an organization that happens to be a nonprofit that's really hit on something that's of value, whether that's career readiness or workforce. Career readiness seems to be a word that's taking over in favor of workforce development or something like that, this career readiness idea. So I enjoy those conversations. And Maryland obviously has a very big push around education and a different type of delivery in education. And we have a new governor who's going to do it a little bit differently than the old governor. So I always enjoy the catch ups with that group because it's a really bright group of people on the board of directors led by a really good staff at junior achievement. [00:01:57] Speaker B: I do. But for me personally, I want to engage a little bit more than I was able to today, just when work's really a lot going on. That's got my focus. So while I agree it's been hard recently to just engage in the way. [00:02:18] Speaker A: That I want, I think that's part of the balance thing that as entrepreneurs is hard. I mean, there's a lot of demand of your time, whether that's internal, but then also the external components and things that we absolutely love to do and things we love to engage know kids, which is junior achievements mission you're in and around ABC, which is construction side, and me with MEP, which is manufacturing side. But sometimes that balance becomes really difficult. And, man, as much as you'd love to just have infinite time to spend everywhere and engage in everything, it's just not possible. It's challenging. And I think it wears on you at times. Just because neither of us can tolerate doing anything, even seven, eight of the way, let alone anything that feels like halfway or a third of the way, even on a particular day, it's challenging. So I feel you. I completely understand. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And the company has got to be the most important thing at all times. It just does. And this was actually one of my tips for entrepreneurs or young business owners. It's like year one through five, I would advise, not because you're not charitable or giving, but don't even think about getting involved with nonprofits and all this. If your business is sustainable and profitable in the end and gives you that opportunity, do it when you can. But to do it in year one through five, it's really unreasonable. And take care of your business. At the end of the day, taking care of your business is going to allow for all those other opportunities. And that's what I'm feeling right now. I'm feeling like I've got to just take care of the business. Not that putting anything to the side, but right now, realizing this is the priority and can get back to everything else once this gets back in line. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And I remember going through some really difficult years earlier in my career, and I would actually say internally and even externally, hey, look, right now, my favorite charity is me. And I wasn't being an asshole, I was being very serious. That as it related to time, resources and financial resources, there were none to spare. Believe me, if I had them to spare, I would spare them and try to do as much as humanly possible now with both time and financial resources. But you're right, in those early years, don't kid yourself. Any one of those resources that you're giving somewhere else, it's taking from the business at that time. It always is. But when you have a smaller team or you're newer, you just have less of that to spread around, and a lot of it falls on you, for sure. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:04:44] Speaker A: And I will tell you one more too, and I'll just give a quick shout out. I had a really interesting meeting today with a group in Baltimore called next one up, and they've engaged. It's males, 7th grade to twelveth grade, generally in Baltimore City. And they are creating a place for them to go and thrive and learn. And they just shout out to Matt Hannah who just secured what they call base camp, which is up in north Baltimore. It's a 14,000 square foot facility that has 3d printing and a tech side, a great gym that they work out in together. And he's established an expectation and a cadence around being worthy of being in this place. Having to show up and how you show up, it's really impressive. I look forward to engaging more with them in that group. There's about 100 young men between 7th and twelveth grade in there at any given time. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Is that after school? [00:05:36] Speaker A: It's after school and weekends and holidays. [00:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah. We should do some integration with Salvation army on this because we've got the big multi million dollar project we're working on with just this. It's with boys and girls club and it's a performing arts center. It's with Peabody. It's going to be science. I mean we're going to try and put everything under one hub. Basically we're repositioning an old school and it's the same mission. So we should definitely be doing some integrating there. We're running parallel. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah, there's some alliances. There's some JA alliances too. Just talking about that. There's some alliances. I think that space can be challenging at times. Just in not fragmenting all the resources where you end up doing exactly that, running parallel. And then some of that really critical power transmission gets slips where there's all this great horsepower and it just doesn't get transferred because it's diluted in spots. Or one step that would be even worse was if there was competition for resources among those groups. Then it gets really messy. But that was a really great experience. And I met Matt. I didn't realize it. Seven years ago we were at a manufacturing event and he know, I remember meeting you and I was hoping for this big pull through. You were one of the few that stayed in touch. And he know, as much as I wanted to engage, we just weren't there yet. We didn't have the time, resources we didn't have our act together. We didn't have a space like this. And he said, I'm glad we reconnected today because we're ready now. So he's in a really good spot. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I think this is a good segue into topic of conversation about. We were digging into the idea of happiness and what it means. Is it sustainable, what it means to us. Are we happy? Everything about how we define it and find it or pursue it or chase it, is it a destination? Is it an outcome? Just the overall topic and think the most important thing for me, and one reason I do want to be a part of these nonprofits and other community acts, even when I'm feeling overwhelmed with work and everything else is for that piece of purpose and meaning and being part of a bigger cause and impact. And I think when I'm looking at happiness, I think at the root, at least for me, I'm generally a very happy person. I always have been. And maybe that's some genetic component in luck in that regard. But I think when I strip it all down, I'm most happy when I've got a lot of purpose and meaning and different missions in my life, which is what I feel like. These nonprofits and work and everything I touch really has some kind of deeper meaning for me. And that really provides me with a sustainable happiness, I think. And happiness, maybe the right word is joy, and I'm not really sure how they would be defined in a dictionary, but purpose is very like that. Mission is very important. I feel like to remain happy, I have to be driving towards something. And I'm not saying I can't find pleasure in things that really have no meaning per se, or that are just for fun, but it's fleeting for me, it's pleasure for a fleeting day or moment in time where that sustainable happiness comes from a bigger purpose. How do you feel about that? Do you feel the same? [00:09:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. And we've talked a number of times about what do you do, some of the reinventions that happen along the way. You have to be able to do that and you have to be able to. I don't know that I would be able to be happy just on the same exact linear path. There's got to be some different entries and some different experiences. And all of those, for me, are generally learning opportunities. It would be about learning something and then trying to figure out what to do with my new knowledge. Even if I then turn that into some type of a superpower along the way, it's like, wow, I didn't know that. And then I really invested in it. But yeah, I think that happiness piece like you hit on pleasure, which to me would have a very short term feel to it, that would have a very short duration. And I think knowing you as well as I do, a lot of your happiness too, comes from your perspective. Right? We talk about being grateful a lot, and grateful and gracious and everything that's, that's in and around that word, but knowing you as well, as I do, it's that perspective piece where you look at it and think, wow, I have it. Great. What an asshole I would be to ever show up cranky or grumpy, because that would be attempting to waste my shot in some fashion. So that's how I think about it. And then try just like, all right, just. Just stop. Know, whatever you're doing in this little minute, Mick, just get the hell out of it and get back onto what you were doing for me. I say it all the time. Go make a sales call then. I love seeing our customers. I love solving problems. And that's a pretty quick about face for me. If I get into a moment or I feel like I would never say my happiness is in jeopardy, but sure as hell, there are moments where you're like, man, I'm just not gelling today or the rut. We talk about the rut, but happiness, for me, I love the people here. I love the people that I'm around. Whether it's going to meet the mad Hannah's of the world or sitting in a room with junior achievement and they're bored and working on that. That's all part and parcel or add on or additive to being happy and feeling fulfilled is another word for me that's really important. [00:11:38] Speaker B: I was going somewhere else with this. I'm going to bring it back because it's probably the most important thing I want to hit on. But this is a nice segue to what you just said in that happiness. The theory is, and this is a theory know, we were talking about the Arthur Brooks new book. I'm currently in the middle of strength to strength. His book, which I really like, I'm only halfway through. But one of the ideas that real happiness cannot happen alone, and there are some exceptions. Like for me, I do get genuine happiness when I have 90 minutes to just run. And he even says that in one of his podcasts, okay, if you go on a hike in nature for 90 minutes, you're really happy. Maybe that's exception, but for the most part, if you're doing a lot of things alone, you're not going to be happy. And he goes into even deeper about that's when addictions start and you start doing things alone. Like it's pleasurable for fleeting, a pleasurable for a fleeting moment. And this idea of not being able to be happy when you're doing things in solitude is interesting to me. And I do think about, with the rare exceptions of the exercise and the hikes, but generally speaking, I agree with that. Notion, because, as I said, I get so much joy and happiness out of a purpose. And that purpose is always collaborative in nature. A lot of it has to do with some kind of give. I hate, like, giving back, but, you know, some kind of. It impacts other people. If it were just me getting this joy and happiness, I would be very not happy, because it has to have some kind of impact that I'm seeing with other people around me. I want to collaborate on the front end, and I want to see the impact on the back end with other people. So doing things alone, I agree. I'm not sure I can think of anything except for the rare exceptions we've touched on, that I would be super happy if there weren't other relationships involved. And I think those relationships that we carry and have, and maybe the strength of those relationships really dictates our happiness levels. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. I'm sitting over here thinking of many, many different examples of that. Go back to know team sports. The idea of. And even if it's an know, we talk about Tommy and his swimming career, even though that would have me with golf, even though those would have individual type feels in the moment, you're still part of a team, right? You're still swimming a particular event as part of the overall team, whether you're accumulating points or whatever that team feel is. But then take it to the next level, where it's soccer, where you are truly receiving the ball from a teammate, and you're working together. We just recently watched the Netflix show that goes back and looks at University of Florida kings of the swamp. I think it's called back in the five to nine seasons, and you look at what they did together. Grueling, grueling work. But, man, they were happy as hell. They were all about it. And I imagine they were as happy and fulfilled as they ever were at any point in their lives. Maybe now, too, but throw in some family, right? A lot of those events that you talk about that make people happier. Mick's a lot happier because he's out with his daughters or he's out with Britt and the girls or something along those lines. For me, most of those happy moments are never sitting by yourself. [00:15:11] Speaker B: They're shared experiences. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah, they're shared. And even the shitty ones, right? I mean, hell, I used to run through the city of Baltimore doing boot camp with a crew, and it was grueling, but we were happy as hell. Know, just because we were experiencing the grueling, whether we were high fiving it out, doing a one arm push up or something stupid. We were tighter and much tighter just because we had gone through that experience together. I think you can pick any of them, but without question, all of the best experiences involve other people. One to 1001 or whatever that is. Yeah, that's the only way it would ever be. I am not an introvert. Clearly. I wouldn't have to take a test for 2 seconds. I'm like, get the hell out of here. You're not an introvert or anything that even looks like an introvert. [00:15:53] Speaker B: I think even for introverts it's the same. And even when we're talking about a solo sport or solo entrepreneur that has a business and it's just them, you're still working with customers or vendors or practicing in team environments, or you're inspiring other people or you're networking. It's just a collaborative environment. I really think there's something to that. And as we're trying to navigate and figure out how we can all be happy, I mean, really, we're all searching for that in our lives. I think that's one thing to really take a look at, particularly if you're not happy, is maybe the relationships in your life and how strong they are, or do you have just a few, which I believe is all you need, of really deep connections? I just think that's so important. The next thing, which I was going to touch on, which I'm bringing back, and you just got into a little bit, as you were talking about the football team, was it king of swamps? It was not king of swamps. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was king of the swamp. Kings of the swamp. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Oh, something like that. Either way, the idea for me is probably a good reminder for people, is when you're going through the challenges and you're having a heavy day, you're having a hard day, you're going through the challenges. I personally don't believe there is joy or happiness without that, without the other side of it. Hey, how would you even know? Where's your comparison? How would you even know? How would you even be able to tell? But also that reward. That's why in the other episode, we talked about how much we value hard work. For me, without the hard work, with the challenge, the real challenge, like the grueling effort, the demands, the outcome on the other end, just isn't as sweet, it's not as joyful. It doesn't bring me as much happiness if I don't go through all the challenges to get there. So when you're having those hard moments and you're having those tough days, I think it's so important to remember this is part of the bigger thing of happiness. It's good. I'm talking to myself right now. I'm like, pumping myself up, sitting over. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Here listening to you, which is why. [00:18:14] Speaker B: I love these podcasts. I'm literally saying this to myself while you had very hard conversations today, which were also great for me, like, very hard conversations with which most people would call very prominent people and just had to be very direct and have these hard conversations, it also made me better. It made me a better communicator. It made me so much better on the other end just for being able to have the hard conversation. So the diametrically opposed, I think, are very important to ultimately be happy, which I bring myself back today. I can look at and say, this is good. This is really good, because if nothing else, I'm going to grow. And that makes me pretty happy. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And we talk about that. So back to a quick entrepreneur moment. Having hard conversations is an art form, right? And I think even leading up to that, getting yourself positioned or being willing to have hard conversations is really difficult. There's any number of people that I watch, and I'm not broad brushing here, but salespeople I have encountered inside of our organization and outside of our organization, they are great when things are great, but man, all of a sudden, when something goes a little crooked, that delivery didn't happen, that customer's pissed about that price or whatever, those things. Next thing you know, they're know. My father would call him good time are when things are great. Charlie's around. But the second they have anything that looks like difficulty to them, nowhere to be found. So entrepreneurs listening, learn to have hard conversations and embrace them, prepare for them, show up for them, be honest, you'd be shocked by how it will be received on the other side. And if you go through that with, I think your situation today was with a partner, a customer partner, supplier relationship, you go through that with them, just like doing that one arm push up out in the rain. There is a bonding experience that happens. [00:20:11] Speaker B: Maybe not. I'm not sure it's going to be a bonding experience, but we'll see how it all shakes out. [00:20:15] Speaker A: But they know where you stand, right? They know where you stand, and they know who you are, and they know they're going to get it straight. And I found that people, even though they may not love the information, they'd prefer furred over a surprise or anything that looks like a lie 100% of the time. So anyway, back to that. So, yeah, we were talking about having hard conversations. [00:20:34] Speaker B: One thing I do just want to end this conversation with, and this isn't about happiness, but about just something. What our podcast is about is business. And as an owner, or it doesn't have to be an owner, it could be even someone in executive positions where these are the moments for me. I had to decide, was this something I was going to. Big deal, it's going to all work out. It's going to be fine, but big deal in the moment, what I was going through is this something I bring to my team and let them in and fight the battle with me. And this is one I decided not to. They are so busy. They have so many other things to worry about. They don't need to carry that. And that's probably why sometimes it feels more overwhelming because you're shouldering it yourself, but it's the right decision. Sometimes you, just as that leader, you've got to fight these battles yourself and shield your team from it. And it's not not being transparent, it's making a business decision that's best for everybody in the moment. They've all got their own workloads that are super heavy that they need to focus on, and I know that. So you've got to make those decisions in the moment, real time. And there will be a time probably where I'll bring it to them, but it's probably going to be when I'm on the other end and there's an outcome. And those are hard because, like I said, you want to be very honest with your team, and you don't want anybody to think, especially like my vp, that I didn't come to him with this. It's like I'm respecting their workload now, and I know that this is a conversation I need to handle. At the end of the day, I'm making the decision, and it's just one of those battles to fight by myself. And sometimes you just got to make those decisions, but it's hard, and it makes it even a little bit more overwhelming. I think when you're not collaborating on it, you're a one man army. [00:22:26] Speaker A: Well, listen, there are times where that efficacy also has to be accompanied with speed, right. And you don't have time. And listen, businesses like ours, and maybe in general, I don't know how all of the businesses work, but I can tell you that businesses like ours are not democracies. Ultimately, they are benevolent dictatorships. Because if the ship goes down, you're homeless or I'm homeless, right? So when it comes down to it, they're benevolent dictatorships. You certainly want as much input. But when you get to moments like that and it's got to go right, the shit's about to hit the fan, and you got to make sure that it doesn't get on everybody else in the organization. Those are the choices that you make, and those are appropriate. And yeah, you grow and you could always double back and there's a learning experience and you can share it with them after the fact or not. There are some things that I do or some calls that I make, and it's not in the interest of being opaque. There's nothing about it. It's, you know what, at some point that'll come up. When appropriate, I'll tell them about the time when, but I'm not going back in now, especially if I feel like it would rattle anyone's confidence or there anything either that had a look, what I did moment to it, I absolutely won't share in that moment. If it is anything that feels or sounds like that, then I won't at all. [00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And to your point, I mean, it was a call out of the blue. It's not like I had time to say, oh, come on, come on, team, and collaborate with me, but it had to be handled real time. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Who's online too? Oh, shit. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're just caught off guard and you handle it. And it's always for the betterment of the team and the company. And so that's always the priority. And if your team knows that, it's not a harder conversation to have after the fact, if you do have it to say, I just handle this shit right now. [00:24:05] Speaker A: So let me ask you this. So a day like today, one of the tougher ones, right? I mean, is this one of those moments where you say you don't even know what the happiness looks like if you don't have some pretty tough days where you'll have, will tomorrow inevitably be better just by the fact of how tough today was? [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yes. And I will say, even today on a tough day, I'm still genuinely, really happy. And I think the one thing I guess that will come to mind is we always talk about pressure as a privilege. And so when I have these two people on the line that are calling me, right, not that I'm like, oh, I feel important because these two people call me, but I would have. But it does remind me, like, you are highly regarded by these people who are making really big decisions in a lot of ways and far beyond just here in our city. So I think that it puts into perspective, like, you've worked your way into a position where your voice is regarded and respected. And even though it was a tough conversation, you were part of the conversation, you're in the middle of the conversation. So I still think I'm able to put it into perspective. I'm not joyful today, but putting into perspective, I'm still happy. And when you do feel value, that helps the happiness level, too. Going back to the purpose, the mission, the value, respect, those are all really things that are so important to me. And when I wake up and I feel like I'm giving that and I'm receiving that, I'm happy and I'm able to stay positive, which that's another thing, another topic of positivity, which I think we could roll into as well. The answer to your question is yes, I think tomorrow will be easier, but I'm still able to shift my mindset and be happy today and realize, put it to perspective. [00:26:17] Speaker A: I wouldn't even say, yeah, I think that happiness is a much longer duration feeling too. Right. That's ingrained. Right. You might not be. Again, I can't use the word happy to describe the word happy, but you might not be as bubbly and effervescent as you are today. But, man, that had no effect on Britt Arnold's happiness. Right. You're still the same person you were yesterday before this stuff bubbled up or whatever the situation was, but no effect on your happiness. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I'm going to butcher this, but something like Arthur Brooks was saying is, I don't think happiness is a thing like you're not happy. It's not like a state or even an Al. I think it's different, like stages or. I'm not sure how he puts it, but it's not actually like a state of being. You shouldn't actually describe yourself as happy. Right? You experience happiness, and I guess some people experience it more than others. Again, I'm butchering that, but it makes sense to be not define yourself as. I'm just happy. It's not how it works. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Right? No, that would be great, but no, it does not work that way. [00:27:27] Speaker B: But as a side note on positive, I have just had this positive outlook my entire life, even since I was younger. And my parents can tell you I've always been able to turn things positive. And maybe that's just the upbringing and seeing my parents that are positive, but that is also a real key in happiness when you can shift that mindset like today. That allows me to. I see the positive in it. I'm able to distract. Not distract, detract the good, the silver lining out of things. And I can always do that, even in. Maybe not necessarily in the moment, but pretty quickly after. And I don't know exactly where that comes from, but maybe it is just from going through so many failures and being in so many challenging positions and then also seeing the growth that comes out of that and in the end, the outcome, just like anything else. When you practice something and you go through it and you're like, yeah, I've been here. I've been through this dress rehearsal, and you know where you're going to get on the other end, even when you're in the hard times. It allows me to always remain very positive. And that has to be contributor towards long term happiness, I would think. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, absolutely. I love the positivity piece because I think positive and positivity are a choice, too. There's lots of days when you're in business and whatever you're doing, right, I mean, you have a winless season. Pick one of those, right? Imagine that. There's any number of football teams recently that were owing 15 and owing 16, still out there working their ass off, still trying to pep their teammates up in the locker room, whatever that looks like. I think that positivity component is a choice, too. And I don't know what it would be about certain people on the planet that just don't choose it. You run across someone that's just a shit on a particular day, right. They're just a shit. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Or in general. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Yes. Or a constant shit. And you just think, why, that's hard. [00:29:39] Speaker B: Seems really hard. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Really hard, especially. And I would just love to know if you or I come bouncing by, as we typically would come bouncing by, right? Because whatever. Kick the door on the way out, and my toe hurts like hell, but I decide, am I kicking your door? And I'm pissed, but I walk through the door, I'm like, well, that's over. I'd be curious to know what that feels like for someone that can be around happy people and just like, yes. No, don't want any parts of it, and I'm going to stay over here and be an effing grouch. And that's the way it's going down today. I don't know. It's just so foreign to me. I don't know what to do. And I at least can say, I know your organization, our organization, it sticks out so much here. If we were to let a grump into one of our teams, the rest of people be like, hey, what's up with a grumpy person? Did they fake it through the interview process? Were they happy long enough to get the job? And all of a sudden they've turned into a grump. Or the other side of that could be, do we need to see if we can help them? That could be the other part, too, which would be fine, and that would be reasonable also. But, man, in general, people are on here pretty grateful, pretty excited about the opportunities that they have and all the good things that are going in their life. And I think make conscious choice to focus on that above anything else. Not that everybody doesn't have challenges and some tough things to deal with or go through, but I think it's part of that is what you choose to focus on and what you let drive you. That versus the other part. [00:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And certainly we are very high energy and bubbly, but there's a difference between you don't have to be super outgoing and bubbly and high energy to be very positive and very happy. It's making sure you're seeing the person as they are. And someone could be super quiet and not say a lot, but one of the happiest, most gracious people. So, I don't know, just worth mentioning, because we're talking about how we're jumping around, bouncing around all day, which we are, but people show their happiness in all different ways. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Well, I could give you a counter. So a counterpoint to that. An individual. I know I've said this before, but we have this seven values we've identified, and one of the things we do in a number of different meeting formats is called people exhibiting the values. Right. It's doing what we value around here when no one's looking and we actually take time to call it out. And our director of engineering is that exact person you're speaking of. Incredibly effective, positive, great leader, but by no means would you ever mistake him for a comedian or anyone bouncing through. You would not be mistaken for Tigger from Winnie the pooh bouncing through the office or anything of the sort, but incredibly positive. And when he actually. It might even have the opposite effect. When he speaks, you are going to listen because he's not with a ton of words all the time, but when he has something to say, he absolutely pulls you in physically into whatever it is he's about to say. It's a really interesting way that he shows up and what the outcome of that particular mode is. And his Persona. [00:32:53] Speaker B: So what would you say if you're talking about sustainable happiness as we're saying, this is not a I am happy. I experience happiness often and hopefully for the rest of my life. How do you see yourself achieving that? And maybe it's not something you've necessarily have to work at. Maybe some other people have to work harder than others. But for me, I think being really conscious and intentional is important because as you were talking about is finding the silver lining in things. Being able to put things into perspective and realize that without the challenges, you don't necessarily have the joy on the other end. But I think that's being very conscious and aware and intentional. I think that's a really important part of happiness because if you can't do that, then I think it's going to be hard to find any type of sustainable happiness. What would you say would be the other keys to being able to be happy for, generally speaking, for a lifetime. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Having a wide range of missions, experiences and interests that allowed me to meet a lot of different types of people when we travel, for example. My favorite thing about traveling is, yes, seeing the places, which is great, but really it's about seeing the people. It's about seeing those animals in their native habitats, and that's the people at the local bars or the people at the whatever it is, whether it's in the stadium and we're watching the way those fans show up versus the way we know the fans in our particular area show up. So it's about continuing to find and identify different pursuits that are interesting to me that will continue to quench my thirst, my curiosity, what we talk about all the time. Some of those might lead into the ability to innovate. Others might just be the opportunity to learn and experience and observe. And I'm just as happy observing as I am actioning. There are times when that learning, whether it's a skill or something that's maybe applicable here, then I'm going to go use it to directly innovate or create something new. But I'm also just as happy observing too, and taking in the surroundings and watching the interactions. But it's very people based for me. I'm sure I would enjoy the redwood sequoia trees or something about that. But man, if there weren't a bunch of people around to watch, watching the sequoia trees, it wouldn't be nearly as fun for me. So that answer for me is simple. It would be continuing to identify pursuits, opportunities, learning. But there would have to be people around that are also doing it too, because that's the most fascinating part, is watching all the different mammals on this big rock. [00:35:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you touched on one piece super important is just that awareness, the self awareness and identification of what really does bring you joy and what really does bring you happiness and then being deliberate about creating those experiences and opportunities that play into what does make you happy. And I think part of the challenge, especially as in the strength to strength book, is a really good book that talks about those life transformations and as we evolve and it's embracing our different strengths and how they change and not holding on to things that once made us happy or our skill sets that once were our skill sets or superpowers, as you call them, which maybe aren't now. Like I'm in my 30s now. They might not be the same as when I was in my twenty s and being able to let go and being okay with that, but evolving and saying, I still have a lot of purpose, I still have a lot of skill, I have wisdom, I have knowledge. Now maybe I don't have that innovation piece that I once had, but now I'm wiser. And it's adapting and evolving and creating a life and not holding on to the things that you once were. I think as we grow and get older is going to be very important to our happiness. And I say that because I definitely have a hard time embracing change. We all do. We're all humans. And adapting. I shouldn't say embracing change, but accepting the fact that I am getting older and I can't always rely on the things. Or maybe I don't love all the things that I once did. So just being really self aware and deliberate with the lives we create when we're identifying those things in ourself. So the evolution is interesting and I think really important if we want to be happy for a lifetime. And that was really my question. If happy in your twenty s, thirty s, forty s, fifty s, sixty s, I think it looks really different and I think it takes a lot of deliberate hard work and self awareness and self navigation. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Well, I think you use the word evolution, which I love here, and I was going to use that too. I think you can invest in your evolution, right? I mean, there's this whole thing that's going on over 7 billion years of being on this planet or whatever that is, where there's that evolution, which is this incredibly slow, unrecognizable. You're not going to grow a third arm in front of me today, but it could be that if a couple of billion years from now, if it turns out you're better able to survive, you might have one. We'll never know. But I think in the moment and now you can invest in your evolution by doing exactly what you're talking about, right? By being cognizant of where you are, what you're doing, what you've collected along the way and how do you put that to use, right? I mean, how do I. I didn't have this stuff when I was in my early twenty s. I just pick a sporting reference, right? I was fast. I was fast as hell. Didn't see anything, right? I was running so damn fast, I actually didn't see the angles on the field or where the ball could come from and where I should be. I actually ran too damn fast. I was ahead of the play. If I'd have just seen it and chilled ass out, I'd have been in a position to score back posts. Right? We talk about in soccer all the time. I think you can invest in that evolution if you're incredibly aware of what you've collected to this point in your life. And then, all right, these are some great things. Sure, I've lost some stuff along the way. Jesus, who doesn't? But I have also collected through my experiences and what I've been able to learn and see. How do I deploy these to get where I want to go or to do. And it wouldn't be conscious, right. You would just do that towards being happy because that would be a driver for you. Right? Who doesn't want to be happy? I don't know. Whatever. Who would sit there and say, God, you know what? I'm just not into that whole happiness thing. That sounds like a pain in the ass. Of course you want to be happy, but what would you do subconsciously to invest in your evolution, to just be on a trajectory that would keep you happy? [00:39:56] Speaker B: By invest, what do you mean? [00:39:58] Speaker A: Well, you made me think of that word invest just by talking about embracing the things that have changed about you along the way. Right. You have lost some things and maybe some of that's good. If you lost impulsiveness in your youth before you grew out the front of your brain, there's actually probably some things you've lost that are really helpful for being better going forward. So I wouldn't necessarily tag that word. Loss is necessarily a bad thing. You've evolved through that, whether it's an impulse or whatever. Some of those mammal traits that you have early in life that may not serve you as well in certain spots, it's about understanding when they're not going to serve you and turning them off. Oh, this is not an impulse moment. Shit, when you were 23, you would have already done it. You wouldn't even thought about impulse. So I think it's more about being able to identify what that looked like and go, that's one of those impulse things. No, not now. This is not an impulse moment. Chillass out. But what you were telling me, what you said to me was acknowledging some of the changes, right? Some of that evolution. And my add on to that was, well, hell, if you could acknowledge it, why wouldn't you continue to do more of that and build onto it? We talk about stacking things. That would be a stacking moment for me. [00:41:07] Speaker B: And if we're actually talking about, literally, the investment and we're saying, okay, the things that, the purpose and the collaboration with other people, we've identified what makes you and I happy. So why not invest in those shared experiences, travel, culture, being with great people, and get rid of the rest of the distractions, whether it's material things or anything else. That, quite frankly, is just not part of that happiness trajectory or support system. I think sometimes we layer way too much onto our plate and into our lives when we could cut so much of that bullshit out. And if we just really focus on, and it's not just there's so much more than happiness, but we're saying the impact we make, the mission, the purpose, that's all plays a part into our happiness. So let's invest into that. And at the end of the day, that's going to be investing in our companies, in nonprofits, in cultural experiences, in travel, in shared experiences. So that investment piece, and it doesn't just have to be financially, it's time, maybe more so time than anything else, but identifying being aware and then investing in it and saying, okay, I know what makes me happy. Why am I dealing with everything else right here? Easier said than done. Social media drives people mad. It's pleasurable for a fleeting moment, and then you have a down that's just like a stimulant. You get really high, and then you crash. Too much caffeine, too much alcohol, whatever that looks like. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Well, social media is tapping the same as Arthur Brooks talks about in this particular, his newest book. It actually taps the same pleasure receptors. Certain drugs. You know, we're a big fan on here, talking about how we demonstrate what we do. Where were we on Sunday? What do we do Sunday? [00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah, but baseball game with 75 people, with our company, that shared. The shared experience. [00:43:13] Speaker A: That's right. And we were all in the same place. Now, was I having a conversation with each individual? I wasn't, but I felt great that there was 74 other people, including you, that were around me, that were enjoying one of our favorite teams, the Orioles. And then we put hats on them. Right. That had our brands and our company names on them, which pulled everybody a little bit closer together, too, which is a very animalistic type thing. But, yeah. So that's exactly what we chose to do, versus going and buying stuff or taking money out of business to go do whatever the investment was back into being together in the same ballpark. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah. It's the commitment to, again, scrolling at the end of the day, it doesn't make me happy scrolling through my social media. So let me be very cognizant and deliberate and committed to my happiness and just get rid of those things out of our life again. It's so easy to say I'm guilty of all of it, just like everybody else. The other thing, too, talking about shared experiences. One thing I have to point out, because we always laugh about it, is when we're recently, we've been on the water on a boat, and people tie up. Right? You tie up on a boat, but all these boats come to this one area, this one little island, very tiny little island, and they call it an island. It's not. And this could be some boats tie up, but very rarely you see boats tied up together. [00:44:37] Speaker A: It's a group of single boats. [00:44:39] Speaker B: It's just an amalgamation of all these boats that are tied up in the same area, but nobody's talking to each other. You could be anywhere. We are in a vast body of water. You could be anywhere. You could tie up anywhere. Wherever your boat wants to go, tie up. There's plenty of water, yet everyone goes to the same place. Nobody talks to each other, but we just want to feel like we are part of a bigger group. Every time we've been out. We have not had any communication with any other boats there yet. We want to be close to all the other boats just to have that shared experience, and I think that's just a perfect example of what we're talking about. [00:45:20] Speaker A: So here's a question for you. Buyer beware. We suck at this. Remember in, let's see, it was April of 2020. We were stuck at home, pandemic raging, and we were stuck on the couch, and we each made a bet on how long the pandemic was going to last. And what did I say? June 6. So I had it lasting another two months. In my mind, I think you went a little bit further. Maybe you went to July something. So I'm just saying we suck at this. How long does the attraction or allure of social media hang in there in this particular degree? Man, Tommy, is it your group that gets sick of this and says, enough of this crap. I'm tired of is my cell phone is a great tool for certain things about learning and venturing around the world to see pictures of aztec pyramids. But for the rest of it, I'm done. What a crock of shit. And I understand how much harm it's doing me versus how much benefit. How long is that going to go on, I wonder? [00:46:18] Speaker B: I don't know. I think you got to give people the personal freedom. Once you strip people the freedom to choose, then we've got a problem. [00:46:24] Speaker A: I was never suggesting we take it away. [00:46:26] Speaker B: No, I'm just making a point there. I think it's on an individual level. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Back to our evolution topic. When do you look back and go, remember, that was really a thing. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Social media can be so mission driven, you can get so much good out of it. So it's just the way, just like everything else, for the most part, the way you leverage it. [00:46:44] Speaker A: It's like a tool, right? If you use your hammer for the right thing, it's wonderful. If you smack your budy with it, not so good. [00:46:49] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Now, one other thing we haven't really touched on, and really, maybe I shouldn't even go here, but, you know, I think there's also ways to boost your happiness and maybe it's like boost your mood. So obviously you have different ways and tools that we develop. And one of mine being exercise and all these different, when I'm sweating and I'm breathing hard, my mood is boosted. I feel happier, I feel kinder, I feel more myself. Do you think some of those tools and practicing them and developing them over the years is really important? To be able to be happy, generally speaking, for perpetually, forever? [00:47:46] Speaker A: Yeah. One of my favorite things to do is walk the building. If I'm back, we literally are in the corner office and it's away from the general travel. I will get up and walk the building, whether it's go down towards automation where we generally have a lot of younger teammates, and I will just go seek people out. I know who the people in the organization are, by the way, everyone here. I'm never expecting anybody to be head down or a miserable turd. That's not a thing around here at all. But I will get up and go seek out that human interaction. And it's interesting at times where I'll recognize people were looking for the same thing. They just didn't know it. And I happened to get to them before they got to me. And so I will walk the building, and the number of people that I encounter, Jordan in the back, is one of my favorites. I mean, that guy is always ready to slap a smile on his face and high five it out and giggle about something. And it's the most refreshing, enlightening thing. So you wouldn't be able to pull out the treadmill and knock out a couple of few miles at your desk, but for me, a really simple one. Get the hell up from my desk and go experience the really badass, cool, fun, positive people that we built inside of the organization. Because they all rally around the same seven values. That's why they're here. That's what attracted them. That's what attracted us back. And I just go do that. [00:49:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't think we need to get into all the different things that people do because that's a belabored topic at this point. Get sunlight, walk, run, sauna. We've heard it all so much, but I think it goes back to that same concept of being very aware and very deliberate and very committed. There are certain things that are non negotiables, and I will not give them up, because when I do, I'm giving up on myself and my ability to show up 100%. So it's finding what works for you and staying really dedicated to it. Because when you can do that, as we say, if you feel good and you feel like you look good, and it's so much more than just aesthetics in the inside, you feel, I mean, super simple, you feel good, you feel healthy. It's really easy to be happier and kinder and just more productive and efficient and purpose driven. And it just comes back to doing those things and staying really committed every day to those tools that allow you. [00:50:08] Speaker A: To feel like that while looking around for new tools. Right. Because if you're too head down, you might actually miss an opportunity for something that you love and be an amazing thing to integrate that's hyper complementary to what you're doing. So, yes, doing that, but also, too, picking your head up. Right. If you were the best assist person in the world, you'd have your head up looking for the next play or looking to dish the ball. That, too, is important. [00:50:30] Speaker B: Well, it's just back to that whole evolution piece, the way we achieve happiness is going to be different throughout our lifetime. So just making sure we're always looking and aware. I don't think we have to say this again because we said it last episode, but these are all things we're working through. And a lot of times we have these discussions when maybe we're not demonstrating it well or I really wanted to hold myself accountable to saying, okay, get out of this little funk. Put into perspective, you know, that the challenge makes the reward and the joy and the happiness so much better. And so for me today, this was a little like pep talk for myself, given the day. And that's why we do this. But it's not because we have it figured out. But I do love the accountability of it, and it definitely helps me stay as true as I can to what we're talking about. [00:51:30] Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. Well, good for you. You strapped it on. I know you've had a rough day. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Again. Rough is very relative. [00:51:39] Speaker A: I get it. That's right. [00:51:40] Speaker B: Privileged. [00:51:41] Speaker A: That's true. True. Look, first world, I don't think anybody's bawling for you on the other side of the telecast. If this is not a telecast, I guess it is a telecast. Right, Tommy? It's got tele whatever. So good for you. [00:51:53] Speaker B: But I recognize that. [00:51:56] Speaker A: What the heck? [00:51:56] Speaker B: We're so far. I didn't have my cup. This is just race ass in here because I have a quote due end of business today that I've got to get out. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Good for you. We stayed on track. We demonstrated what we preach. I think demonstrated what we preach works here. [00:52:12] Speaker B: We try our best. And as I said, I will call myself out, and I'm not going to say something on camera that I'm at least not trying my best to do. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Well done. [00:52:25] Speaker B: Because if we're not, you can see right through it. [00:52:28] Speaker A: Let's get back to being happy. I know we will have. [00:52:30] Speaker B: I don't have to get back to it. I don't have to get back to it. [00:52:33] Speaker A: No. We've been happy the whole time. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Yeah. So let's just continue to be happy. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Continue to be happy. Queen.