Our BIG Commitments: Ultramarathons & Singing | S1E22

[00:00:10] Speaker A: All right, here we go. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Say Tuesday. Yeah, it is Tuesday. [00:00:16] Speaker B: I genuinely didn't know. [00:00:18] Speaker A: I never know. I know these weeks sometimes with no, with no goalposts, as I like to call them. You know what it was, too. I was. I traveled yesterday on a Monday, which is pretty unusual, which definitely gets me all jacked up. [00:00:30] Speaker B: I genuinely didn't know. And I mean, the good thing, I feel like there's good and bad to that, but the good thing is a Saturday to me. A Saturday and a Tuesday. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Summer, winter. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So for today, I'm going to get right in there. We have a show to shoot. [00:00:52] Speaker A: We have a show to shoot. [00:00:53] Speaker B: No small talk today. I'm going to get right in there. [00:00:56] Speaker A: I like the small talk. [00:00:57] Speaker B: I am going to drop it on you like I always do. [00:01:01] Speaker A: I'm ready. [00:01:02] Speaker B: I think a good topic, and this can be overplayed, but there's a few different avenues I want to travel down. So I think we realized that per the metrics that we look at, which videos get a lot of viewership, which means what people like to see is definitely when we get more personal and intimate about our lives. So I think that's going to be important. That's what people like to see. Let's start to incorporate and weave that in more. And I think the topic I'm thinking about, which is about staying motivated and inspired. And I really hate the word burnout. I think there are so many variations of it. I think there's total burnout. And I think that's a real thing. And I can think it can lead to indifference or depression, many things. I also think there's ruts, which we've talked about, which look different, they're more temporary and look different than burnout. And then I think there's the other side of the spectrum, which is having the ability to sustain and stay motivated and inspired over the long term. I am not talking day to day. I'm talking generally speaking over the long term. And you're someone who has demonstrated that by running Arnold for a long time. So let's start there. And I think there are a lot of personal techniques and tactics that we have that we can talk about that allow us to, generally speaking, stay very motivated. And I don't think either of us, I'll speak for myself. I've never actually experienced, I don't think real burnout, at least as it relates to business. And I think I know why. And I'm actually trying to identify that as I'm thinking about this topic. But I think I can pinpoint a few reasons why. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, there's another word that I'll put in there because you mentioned ruts and you mentioned burnout. And there's one in the middle that's fatigue. And that's a word that I'm aware of now. And I think more than I've ever been. So you're right. I have been doing this a long time. Quickie walk down. Memory or history started. I've always been around Arnold packaging, which was called Arnold's factory supplies. And whether it was Columbus day or the non big holidays, if you will, where we were off of school, but it wasn't Thanksgiving or Christmas, and business was therefore open, I would come to work and I enjoyed it. My father was really smart in letting me do the fun things. I was very curious. So I've been here, around here for a really long time and started, I'd say officially in 7th grade if I talk about my c. But in thinking back, when you drop this topic on me and then you start to talk about it, I rarely have any real idea what we're going to talk about. But you always do such a great job of setting it up that I can drop in pretty quickly. But fatigue is a word that I think about when I feel off or I just can't get my motor going the way I mean, it doesn't happen that often. My motor is generally going or I have enough things that are of wild interest that I am engaged in or immersed in. Right. Two great words. Engage and immerse. But I do fight fatigue sometimes. I think that one of the things I've learned to do is understand the difference between mental fatigue and physical fatigue. Because there are times where the job can just be physically demanding. And by that I mean airplanes. Last week I installed right. I actually was tool belt on in the field, turning wrenches and helping to put equipment in a customer's facility. Because a, it's an important customer, b, it's a technology I hadn't been exposed to individually or personally yet. And I wanted to see it up close. So I just grabbed the tool bag and go to site. But I'll tell you that I'm not built to crawl around on concrete floors in 40 degrees like I was when I was a lot younger. So I am aware now of what could look like physical fatigue, whether it's just planes or time zones or being a little bit off. But that's something that I've learned to identify, to understand what the basis of being a little bit off, whatever that means. And that's been really helpful, is to understand the difference between, yeah, you know what? I'm just a little tired, right. I just need to rest up and recharge my machine and batteries for a second, and then all the mental stuff, if there is anything in there, it will work itself out as a byproduct of being physically charged again. So that's one that I think is important in being able to disseminate. If it is burnout like you, and I'm yaking on weight a lot longer, but I agree with you. I'm not sure if I've ever been close to or butted up against the edge of what burnout would be. I don't know that I know actually what that feels like, and I'd be curious to know some veterans, even more than me, be like, well, I know actually, well, is there a whole different feeling between, I think there's a tough ass week of fatigue versus, holy shit, I might be burning out, and if I want to continue to do this, because I think I love it that much. Or maybe you're like, hey, look, you'll know because one of the things you'll lose is love for it, and that's when you'll know. You're actually burned out. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yes. And I think that's really important because I think people do get fatigued or in ruts and they freak out and they abandon ship, or they have a tendency to do that instead of sitting with it, reflecting, realizing that this is temporary. This, too, shall pass. I need to eat or I need a good night's sleep, whatever that is. So I think that's definitely. I agree. Something I've learned. And to be honest, for a while, we just went so hard. We were working crazy hours. We were going out most nights with entertaining customers, vendors, suppliers. And that was definitely a period. While fun, I definitely felt it. Like, we have tailored that back a lot, definitely in the past year, but I would say year and a half, and it's made a difference. It's definitely made a difference, but at the same time. [00:07:19] Speaker A: But I do know there are still moments, and we're both the type of people that derives a lot of energy from those contacts and some of those interactions. I do remember moments where us getting out of the rut was actually going out, like pushing it back, pushing away from the computer, getting out of whatever that, which would have had some monotony, right. We've talked about the word monotony or monotonous and pushing back. And the next morning, even though we might even had a few too many cocktails or whatever we were doing, we were truly. Or if it was just catching up with each other, we had a conversation today where there were some lingering issues, right. There's some home stuff we haven't talked about, there's some podcast stuff we haven't actually dug into yet. And sometimes you and I just need to get off the radar, right. And decompress and reconnect. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:08:06] Speaker A: And we're never separated. We talk about that a lot. I mean, physically we're together a lot, but there are times when we can be in the same room. I mean, head down. We are 6ft apart, but we are head down. You could be on Mars and I could be on Venus and there is that disconnection and some of it, or some of that recharging. I mean, if I'm talking to someone out there, phoning a friend like I have you, I can use one of the things. If I was on one of those game shows, I would phone a friend and it would be you and someone that I can pull back from and share some ideas or thoughts and just get away from it from a second and appreciate and lean into someone else's perspective that's just a little bit different than mine. And then that's another big driver is coming back, is just getting away from it from a second. But it doesn't have to be getting away to something completely different, right? I mean, no one's argued, there's no one tighter than you and me. But even that reconnection with you sometimes get me back into the spot or whatever I was stuck on or hung up on, just having a conversation. And I think what I've said a couple of times on the podcast is I'm just podcast, yeah, I'm having a great day so far, is I'm just listening to you figure it out on your own real time. You're just talking and you're actually talking to yourself. And I just happen to be in the room and I think that is a piece that I recognized. I do as well. And you're just sitting over there, right? Because we talk about a lot and I listening to our last podcast, that difference between listening and fixing, there's something about that where you'd be more than capable of leaning and trying to fix, and instead you just listen and I actually end up fixing as part of that. So that's been a huge piece is to have that trusted partner, trusted advisor, man. If it'd be your wife, that's pretty cool too. But that trusted partner advisor, that you can just take a break and get away from it enough to get a little bit of clarity and perspective. Great words. [00:10:07] Speaker B: And that's hard because there will be nights where we've got big quotes, big contracts, whatever. A lot of work to do. And it's like I'm banging my head against a wall right now. No matter how long I sit here and look at this, it's not going to get solved, it's not going to get done, because I'm just too far right now. I'm frustrated, I need to get out. But that's hard to pull yourself out a lot of times. And I agree. I think it's so good to just get out, talk, connect with anyone, whether it's your spouse, someone else, a friend. And I think it doesn't have to be always. It can be something. You could be walking, you could be doing something moving. It doesn't have to necessarily be over cocktails, which we did a lot. But still, then you're also draining your body. So I think it's like finding the right way to do it. But besides that, it's just the connection piece that really does it. I agree. So boiling it all down, getting away, and finding somebody to connect with, that you can talk about and find some clarity in doing so. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. But I also think too, is I think about this just a quick piece. The automation business can be really challenging. And by that I mean it's a very technical business, very long selling cycles. From the time you identify someone, that's a prospect until the time you're in a position. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Construction. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Construction, of course. Absolutely. And then the other side of that too, which is, again, that's a seven year old division. It has a very zero sum game feel to it. So, for example, we propose a massive solution, and the customer is also considering other massive solutions and they don't go with ours. And it's a zero sum game. I mean, you build nothing. Where, having grown up in the packaging business, there's a consumable component. The customer is using tape while I sleep, while I brush my teeth. Whether it's my tape or someone else's tape. For the moment, there is that annuity piece where it doesn't have quite the same feel. So this is a new experience for me when we lose or are told that the customer has decided to go with someone else's solution. And those hurt when you wipe a million dollars off the pipeline, because that's the quote that you put out there, and you wipe a million dollars off the pipeline and meanwhile, that machine, it's got a 20 year life expectancy. So not only that, that customer is out of the market for quite some time. And if they do add on, it's unlikely they're going to add on with someone that's not the preferred supplier. So there's just a zero sum game. So I'm heading to a point here is that the other thing that I've learned to do is get back into a position to win fast. Whether it's just go to something in the pipeline that I was working on, that can be a win. I don't know what it feels like, fortunately, in my career, to have lots and lots of losses build up because you just made a comment a couple of minutes ago about picking up and going away or quitting or something along those lines. Part of that is to have enough opportunities and other closes at the ready, so you don't experience that. Right. And I will say, I think if I'm just going back through, and I always tell people if you watch our podcast, you're just going to watch us figure out a topic on the fly. I don't know that we actually show up. I don't show up with a lot of opinions. What we do is generally talk it through and then halfway, like, you know what? I don't know that I think that way anymore. Here we are just evolving real time over a particular topic. But I don't recall. I think I've always been able to stay in a position where the next win was closest. It was close enough that I didn't get into a bad headspace. And that's something that has served me well, even though I never stopped to think of it until right now, when you ask me. [00:14:01] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, absolutely. And for my business, a lot of it is transactional, and it can get very tedious, very laborious. And there are days, weeks, consecutively strung together where I am stuck behind a computer. I'm not engaging with people, which is where I derive my energy from. And in those moments, I don't feel myself, I feel energy drained, even though I'm in front of a computer. And those are what I consider my ruts. Even if it's big contracts going in or we're doing well or we are successful. For me, it's not totally engaging. I need a little bit of thrill. I need to be with people. So I identify those times which are required and important part of what we do in our business. But that's definitely when I'm feeling in a rut more than anything. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Let me. Ask something. Just hit me. Let me ask you a question and remind me. I don't know. I don't think your answer has changed on this. What would you say is more important? And you can't say both. You have to pick one. Love to win or hate to lose. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Last time I said both. So now you're taking that away. [00:15:23] Speaker A: I am, because I have a thought around that. [00:15:28] Speaker B: I don't know. Because that to me, I know you put a lot of emphasis on that. It doesn't mean that much to me. I don't know. I've never thought too much about that. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Here's where I'm going. Because I was just connecting some dots for myself. Because I do say hate to lose. I do. [00:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:42] Speaker A: I don't. There's no wrong answer, but there is some commentary around that answer with the individual. And I'm just thinking about this idea of not being too far away from the win. If you are a person that hates to lose, could that actually be a detriment? Gosh. Because if you were handed a number of losses back to back to back, and that was something that was so traumatic for you, right, where you're like, oh, I like to win. But that doesn't bothers me as much. I don't know. I was just thinking out loud and just this idea that. I don't know that I ever got into a string where it was just loss after loss. There was always a win around the corner. I was always able to go generate or create a win. And that maybe kept me out of some of those moments and kept me from fatigue, mental or burnout, or whatever that rut was. By keeping that next win close enough or at hand that I was able to move on from whatever it was that could have put me into a rut position or one of those negative bad words. [00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah, but like I said, well, that's back to your point, but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with winning or losing. It's just about the monotonous protocols and procedures. I need a little bit more than that. So for me personally, that's when I'm in that rut. [00:17:02] Speaker A: I think there's a know thy component of this. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:06] Speaker A: What would you say about that? I mean, what have you identified where you say, oh, this is one of those moments where you do know thyself and you're like, okay, I know what this feels like. And I generally know how to get out of this particular lane because I don't like it. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of techniques. One, sometimes you can't. The work has to get done, and I know that, but it's just knowing that in two or three days I'm going to have a meeting and it's going to light me up again. It's just understanding what the cycles look like and knowing like, this is part of the job, this is required. But I always know, no matter what, as long as I've been doing this, there will be a meeting in two days. I'll be with people. Something will come up that's new and exciting and it will pull me out of it. And it's not like a deep. It's just a couple of days. We're like, that's kind of a little bit boring. Not what I love to do, but part of the job. So there are three things that I really identify as a way that I personally stay motivated and inspired and not even coming close to burnout ever. At least I don't think. And those look differently. And I'd love to get into each one, and I'm not sure if they all. I'd love to know your opinion on all three. So one is just having some kind of outlet and something I rely on daily. And it doesn't have to be daily, it can just be like something that you have that's an outlet, an escape, an oasis that you can rely on that makes you feel good and is an important part of your process. And that for me is exercise and sweating and just. That really provides a deep therapy for me. Not just physically, definitely mentally. And it does help me work out things in my head. So there are so many times I'm stuck on something for work or I just have this continual cycle going on through my head. It doesn't stop. And the moment I start running, I gain some clarity. It doesn't have to be exercise. It could be music, it could be something work related that you find some type of calmness in or relaxation, but just having something that you can. Is there something in your life that you have that's. For me, it's a non negotiable. It's a daily. Maybe you could say I depend on it too much, but it definitely helps me because when I feel good, it makes things easier. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah, great question. I don't know that I have something as clear cut and evident as you. I mean, you have a very strong routine and cadence around the physical component and you obviously way more than me. I don't know. There are certain parts, and this is going to have a workfield and like you said, you just said it might not have to be. There are some really in depth fixer components of our business. This is going to sound like the nerdiest thing in the world, but I really do enjoy analyzing data in certain spots. And I did one most recently for a customer that's got some really challenging supply problems and there's lots of different components to it. And I just sat down in front of a good old fashioned spreadsheet. Again, this is like next level nerdship, but just sat down in front of a spreadsheet and I really enjoyed. There was a therapeutic and freeing feeling to putting all of this data in and solving for it and getting it to work out and arriving at the end where I was just really struggling with the clarity around this particular delivery. And it wouldn't matter, right? There's all types of things that I get into, but this one, on this day, I was really happy when I was done and this thing had 1000 columns and it was a beast of a sheet, but I solved it and it had been wearing on me. There was a moment of levity, or there was a cathartic moment around getting this solved in my head, and maybe the same feeling that you would have when that clarity washes over you on mile one, or when you just are able to park the rest of it, whatever the rest of it is. But that's something that will get me. I have such a joy of figuring it out or that type of solve that it actually brings. There's a joyous feeling to it, but I don't seek it out. There's that routine component like, yes, in the morning, this is how I start my day. And by 530 I feel awesome. And here's what I've done, and I've knocked out 1000 calories. These come in intermittently and I don't know if I find reasons to do it or if I get to the point, I'm like, yeah, I just need to sit down and shut the door and just get into this. But there is a particular joy that I feel when I'm done sorting through and getting that problem worked out. [00:22:08] Speaker B: So how does that relate to the topic at hand, which is staying motivated? Is that a way to break up the monotony of a typical day? [00:22:17] Speaker A: Could be. Or a lot of times when I'm doing that, in that particular moment, I was getting closer to the win. There was a solve, it was part of a bigger process and I was not going to get what I wanted until I got that part. So there was a milestone component. Maybe that's it. Or the way to say it. There was a milestone component of that that was always going to be in the way of getting what I wanted or where I wanted to go. And knocking that milestone over has a great feeling to it. And there is a break to it. It does. In that moment, I am able to block out everything else that might have been part of the noise that had me feeling ruddy or fatigued, and I come out on the other side like, yes, okay, good. Anchor off. Let's get back to it. So, yeah, it does have that feeling. [00:23:05] Speaker B: So from what I'm hearing, correct me if I'm wrong. You do in some way associate or correlate wins, achievements, accomplishments, no matter the size, with your ability to stay motivated. [00:23:20] Speaker A: Yes. If there's a box checking component of that. Right. We talk about that, too. Hey, I feel good. I checked a box and it wasn't a massive thing. But sometimes just checking a box is a hell of a big deal where you need to get a little win or you need to get some progress or everything in a moment or a week or a month feels like you're going backwards. Sometimes you just need to check a box and get some forward yardage, and you might not move the sticks, but you just might get some forward yardage. And that's the motivation that you need to get the next play to move the sticks. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, sure. Now I think I'm going to stay in the lane of exercise, or I'll call it extracurricular hobbies, and then get back to the business side of things. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Because I was supposed to say something non business and then said, no, I just like to dig into a good spreadsheet. [00:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not where I was going, but that's why we're different and everybody works differently. So the one thing is we've talked about this is you and I have a real thirst for controlled chaos. And when things are streamlined and even keel, a lot of times we need to feel like we need to shake it up. But that is part of keeping us engaged and inspired. I think if I came to work and did the same thing day after day and all things pretty much, it was a boat that didn't do a lot of rocking, kind of just steady along. I would be bored. I need some highs, and even the lows make the highs that much greater. But part of that is pushing the limit. Part of that is taking risk, because to get great rewards, you need to take big risks. Cliche, but it's part of that, like the adrenaline, the not knowing, pushing yourself, getting outside of your comfort zone, being like, this is freaking hard. That is what you and I, we live for it. So I look for that both in business and outside of business. So one thing I do is I create and I have goals that I want to achieve outside of business. So one of them, I always have some kind of obsession or addiction. And right now I'm really interested in running and ultramarathons. I really want to do it. I have these big goals. And if your work is like, sitting there and you're like, this is just one of those moments. I'm a little bit of abrupt, but you have something over here that is like, okay, but I got that thing. And that's really giving me some energy. It balances things out, I think. And it's definitely a way to keep me going. So when I have these athletic goals, also business goals, and they coincide because business isn't always going to be. You're not always going to be like pushing a boulder up a hill. A lot of times we are, but not always. But to have this other thing over here where I'm shooting for it and I'm pushing and I'm outside of my comfort zone, that really helps keep me as a whole, just inspired and motivated as a person. I'm going to pass the ball to you because again, we're really different in that regard. And I'm not sure that's even something relatable to. Or maybe it is. You tell me what. [00:26:49] Speaker A: No, it is. No, of course it's relatable. I mean, different. My triggers would. I'm not sitting over there dying to run 50 miles or something along those. [00:26:59] Speaker B: That's not even your interest, right? [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no different. So here's an interesting one. Our mantra this year, I had a very strong idea. This is back to business. But yeah, see where we're going, right? Yeah, that's what I generally have no other interests, apparently. So we talked about watching us figure this out real time, our whole mantra. This year we saw a slowing of the market. We had a good idea that our top line was finally going to simmer a little bit after six years of double digit growth and madness at times true madness, whether it was supply chain. And I've enjoyed leaning into the stabilized piece. Right. Normally or historically, coming off of that wild growth would have been really unsettling for me. This had a little bit different feel. And I will use a description for my team where those years were going from zero to 60 and trying to figure out how to do it in 3 seconds and then 2.9 and then 2.5. This part, this moment now was we get our people on board and settled this optimized piece, right, which could have a look like the athletics. I mean, I watched the books that you read. Eat and run was an interesting title that I passed on the coffee table this morning. And when I read that, I pay attention to what you're doing over there. So I only read the title, but when I got into the car, I realized that I didn't have the radio on or whatever. I would have been doing CNBc. Right? I didn't have that on all morning. And I was just thinking about this idea of eat and run. And I got onto this thought around maximizing your machine and how you would fuel it. And that got me onto some other conversation or some other thought process about optimizing. Right. There's a huge optimization component of that where you got to be really smart if you're going to try to run 200 miles or whatever some of these wild events you tell me are, which I can't even get my brain around. It had that same look. It would be about optimize, and it would be about pushing it up into the top of the pyramid with fractions of fractions of degrees of differentiation. And I liken that to optimizing the business. If you were running an f one car and you had already figured out how to go 245 miles an hour, how would you tweak the fins to go 245.1 or 245.2? That is exciting to me. Those challenges I thoroughly enjoy. I don't know that I apply them outside of business like you're talking about applying them outside of business, but there's so much of it to be done. And that's one of the great things about having your own business and getting to work on what you want to get to work on. I might be working on tweaking the fins of the car over here for Arnold packaging or Arnold automation. Nobody even knows. They don't even know what I found or where. I've identified an opportunity and I'll take a morning on a Saturday, which is free time or whatever time. And that has a very freeing feel to me to dig into that and solve it. Whether people that like Suduco, right, or high end puzzles or whatever those are, that would have a high end puzzle feel to me that I was solving on my own behalf versus pulling out a book of something that wouldn't really have any benefit besides the relief or the relaxation. Mentally, I just apply that back here. So I guess I absolutely have no hobies whatsoever. God almighty. This is terrifying and depressing shit. [00:30:41] Speaker B: Can I hang up? I need to make a comment. And then I have a question. So the analogy you made, I don't. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Know if I like this episode. [00:30:47] Speaker B: The analogy you made is so true. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Such a loser. [00:30:50] Speaker B: And I think that's why. I think that's part of why I love performing. So I've said I equally, probably even more, love human performance. I mean, I went to school undergrad for kinesiology, so the anatomy of the body, nutrition, fitness, optimizing human performance, pushing yourself beyond any that I love as much as I love business, maybe even more. [00:31:15] Speaker A: No, you do. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I think ultimately, one day I'll do that full time, and one day I will, but it really interests me. But you made such a good point, because I think it does. It's so similar to business that I think that's part of why I love it. And the process and the milestones and the prep and all of that is so similar for me. I wrote a LinkedIn post about this recently, but it's also just, you lay brick after brick. You show up, you stick to your commitment, and it does make me more confident and feel just better about myself. And it definitely translate that to business. And when running is really hard or I'm out of my comfort zone, some things in business feel a little bit easier. So it's definitely helpful they play off of each other. Now, going back to the comment about you having no hobbies, I'm not going to say I would agree, but I do think you are a very business oriented. Most things you do, and you love it, so it works for you. Do you ever think that there is reason because people ask us all the time, like, do you have hobies? The exercise and the running and the reading? Like, I do have hobbies. I wouldn't say you necessarily do. I mean, at one time, golf was your sport and also your hobby, but it's a lot of business, and that's what you get. Your joy, which works for you. I don't know if it would work for me, but do you think incorporating a hobby in this is me asking you real time? I don't know if I've ever asked you. This would help. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah, I do. Just, if nothing else, by virtue of perspective, you know, something that I'm super interested in is music. Like music. I am hyper interested in music. And I will say if I have a guilty pleasure. [00:33:11] Speaker B: You love music. [00:33:12] Speaker A: I do. No, I absolutely love music. And if I'm going to park my brain and I'm going to be intentional about parking it, we have the show, the voice on record all the time. [00:33:22] Speaker B: So I want to make one comment to the point where not, like, sobbing, crying, but music touches you in a way that actually makes you emotional. It does. That's how deeply I don't get that. Hell, my dad's a musician. I grew around. All I heard were drums in my house since I was a little girl and all his bandmates coming over and playing. I was surrounded by music, but I still don't have that. I don't feel emotional when I listen to a song like you do. So it definitely touches you in a different. [00:33:53] Speaker A: What? That's so if there's something that I have threatened to get into more, but at the same time, we talk about demonstration on here all the time, like, well, if it really mattered, mick, you would do it. And I do strongly believe, you know. Quick story. Our youngest daughter, Olivia, a few years back, won the leading role in Milan, the Disney musical, which I was amazed by solos in front of people. My first thought is, my children will not do two, will never be able to do two things. Sing or dunk a basketball. Those are just not Arnold traits. That's never happened. [00:34:28] Speaker B: They're not dunking. [00:34:29] Speaker A: They're definitely not dunking. But this music thing, and oldest brooke is very musically inclined. That kid pick up a ukulele and learn a song in 10 seconds, which just blows my mind. Like, that is just another planetary thing. So I made the agreement with her, and we were together at that time. It was very early. I said, well, why don't we get you some training? Because we're from the supervised repetition camp. Watch me hit 10,000 golf balls and tell me how to cut a 10th of a shot out. You with soccer and whatever else. So I said, well, if you go to the school of rock, I'll go with you. So we did. We went to the school of rock once a week, and she got some help, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved it. It was one of the most therapeutic things. And then, unfortunately, the play came and went. She did her role in the play, and I got back on track with whatever else and ever went back. But that is something that I keep threatening to. And we seem to have, at least in the business right now, these disruptions, these destabilizing events. Some turnover or good stuff, right? Not just bad stuff with turnover, but new opportunities. And then I will go dig in, like I talked about that major spreadsheet. That was for a new opportunity. But I really would like to that piece if I was going to hone in on something that I think would really be amazing and I would love to tap into, like, well, if you're going to use your hobby to tap into something that's not what you do every day, music would be that for me, for sure. [00:35:56] Speaker B: And I was laughing a bit as you were talking about reading the book and then how you were looking at optimizing the machine, how you related it to business, because immediately when I was telling you about these crazy races, we think differently. So I'm thinking about running it, right? Pushing my body. And I was telling you about how the crews think about the route and the nutrition and the terrain and the elevation and your mind all is like, oh, my God, I'd crush that. You're thinking about the logistics of the race and how you would get me or any runner through it, and that lights you up. And that's how your mind works. It's so analytical, it's so logistics heavy, where I'm not at all. I don't want to think about that. I want to run and I want you to handle it. But we made perfect team. [00:36:47] Speaker A: You know what I heard? I heard productivity battle. [00:36:49] Speaker B: That's what I heard. [00:36:50] Speaker A: You heard physical challenge. [00:36:52] Speaker B: I'm like, I don't want to think, I just want to run. [00:36:54] Speaker A: What I heard was input and output, which for me, I heard productivity battle. I thought, oh, shit, I'm in. [00:36:59] Speaker B: I know we're going to win this productivity, which is great because put it together, we could have something here. [00:37:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that is funny, but that's exactly what I heard. As I was solving that problem immediately. [00:37:11] Speaker B: You were like, oh, I crush. [00:37:12] Speaker A: I was like, input equals food, output equals Miles. Go on. [00:37:15] Speaker B: I understand terrain where I need to be, where I need to set up what they're going to need. How much water, how heavy is it? [00:37:24] Speaker A: All fractions of fractions of seconds of discipline. Absolutely. Yeah, sure. [00:37:27] Speaker B: What else would you do? [00:37:30] Speaker A: Maybe I do need some of that. [00:37:31] Speaker B: Running stuff or the runner, and then you can do the rest. Yeah, that's interesting. And now knowing that, because we haven't talked about this, I am probably going to try to keep you accountable, at least trying the music thing. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I will. I'll get better. It's funny, though, but I'm guilty as hell because I have created some time. I hired an assistant, protoze of sorts, who's been helping out, learning the business. Lots of different facets of that, but one of them is just simply me not driving in spots in trying to create disposable time. But I keep finding myself filling it with business. And that's not bad, right? Where I love the sales process and I love the people in our industry so much that I keep finding myself. Let's just say, let me get for an example, why wouldn't I just carve out such and such afternoon to say, you know what? That's it. I'm going back to the school of rock. I know where it is. Shit, it's still there. There's nothing stopping me from doing it. But I'm not practicing what I'm preaching here from a demonstration and saying, well, yeah, I'm just going to do that. It is that important. And I'm not going to book that sales call. I'm not going to book that training. We're always bringing on new products and automation and there's training that goes along with that. Where am I going to book it? Well, somehow I look at my calendar, the only thing free is that spot where I would have plugged a singing lesson. And guess what I do? I learn about autonomous fork trucks. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Again, I always say like, I'm going to sit on the other side of the table and debate myself. And I do it often because I don't think there's one way. And for me, I think the person that is obsessed that does one thing the most is going to be the best. And I really do believe that. However, I think that I know for me, my mind and body work so much better. I mean, I am in a whole different mood when I exercise, as opposed to I don't. So my output is better. If you're healthy, you're going to produce longer. So the exercise piece, it benefits the business. It might be an hour and a half that I'm taking out from actually doing the work, but in the long run, you need that. My output is going to be so much better. So I think it is. While I do believe the person who works puts the most smart, hard hours into working, generally speaking, is going to be the most successful, I do think you have to weigh that out with other things that you may do that take away from it, but that do benefit. And I think for you, something like singing would have some type of positive impact on you as a person and your ability to perform and your output in business. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. What I was thinking about while you were talking was we talk about the word opportunity cost a lot, right? And that would have you being really careful about that. [00:40:32] Speaker B: Be strategic. [00:40:33] Speaker A: That's right. [00:40:34] Speaker B: Really do. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Wait a minute, is one and a half hours of running, which is what you do, is that completely. [00:40:44] Speaker B: Counter, counter. [00:40:46] Speaker A: Or subtractive if that's a word from the other stuff that you're doing, right. So I don't know, not pound for pound, you may not say, well, while I run for an hour and a half, I definitely get an hour and a half of benefit somewhere else. It may not be pound for pound in that regard, but it's also not pound for pound to the other side either. Whether it's some clarity. What if you have that bazillion dollar idea while you're on that right, you connect the dots, you turn the noise down elsewhere just long enough that that connection gets made and you say, holy hell, this is what I was missing. Or is this the right solution? Then you take it to your team or whatever step 2345 is. But yeah, those are the pieces that I think you might never know if you're not doing it. So I don't think that to be careful. This is Again, me learning real time, have to be really smart about it not being just this or just that as it relates to where you put your time. [00:41:40] Speaker B: It is. And I think there are a lot of people that are Mr. And Miss Hobby like they're doing a million things and you just aren't going to have the hours in the day to succeed. If business is something you want to be really successful at, you only have so many hours in the day. So I am a firm believer. For me, I have the one other thing that really lights my fire and I put a lot of time into that. But that's it. Even if I'm reading a book, it typically has to do with business or running, right? So it's that one thing. I'm not saying it just has to be one thing. I'm not saying that it has to be a stackable, as we talk about stacking onto your business, I'm not, but I think there's something to it. I really do. And you could have somebody else say, you guys are wrong. Like I have a hobby that has nothing to do with business. It clears my mind, I get away and I come back ready to go. And I would say, fair, yeah, sure, but that's not it for me. [00:42:35] Speaker A: That would be right. Align with what we were just talking about where 3 hours of this completely unrelated thing isn't an exact three hour theft from the other thing. If that's how you sharpen your saw like we talk about that, right? I'm sharpening your saw. Can't cut with a dull saw. That is true. Right. So if that is what comes back and you cut twice as fast by being gone for that period of time, then that's what productivity looks like. [00:42:58] Speaker B: I love this because we start out with one opinion and one thing, and this is what works. This is anecdotal, always. So this is our experience. This is what works for us. I know there are other ways. A vacation. For me, while I love vacation, I love going away from you. I wouldn't say I love going away from me. I love going away with you. [00:43:17] Speaker A: She said from. [00:43:18] Speaker B: Didn't she tell me? But I wouldn't necessarily say vacation. I come back and feeling refreshed and ready to go. I don't need to get off. I love it because I love experiencing, I love doing different things. I love meeting people. But I think there are some people that are like, I need to get away. I need to go on vacation. I need to sharpen my saw for me. I don't need that separation. Like, vacation doesn't do that well. [00:43:43] Speaker A: That's because we have a relocation, though. That's very different if someone watched, because I can't. [00:43:49] Speaker B: I know that's because I want to work. I want to be doing things. I want to be learning. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Right. So it is a relocation that we take. We don't take a vacation. [00:43:57] Speaker B: But that's my exact point. You're confirming my exact point. I think there are some people that just need to get away, and that is their thing and that's what works for them. So I think we're coming back to, we're sharing what works for us, and there's no way. And the only way to figure it out is get super eating this. Super. [00:44:19] Speaker A: You kept coming in. My ears are on fire over here now because every inch you get closer, the ladder gets over here. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Getting super introspective and figuring yourself out. And that's what we come back to. That's obviously the common thread. Always, you have to figure out what works for you and then dig in and lean into it and stop always listening to what works for other people. Certainly you can incorporate and learn. Be like, I haven't tried that, but listen to yourself. That's a huge piece. [00:44:48] Speaker A: How long? Different question for just because we've been on earth, different periods of time, how long do you think or how far back do you remember even having these thoughts? So just simply the idea where you feel off and you stop and ponder it, do you remember how long that's been happening for you. [00:45:12] Speaker B: I feel off, and I stop and ponder it. I still don't think I've ever done that. [00:45:16] Speaker A: So we're talking about a self awareness component or something along those lines where you're like, I feel off, right? [00:45:22] Speaker B: I mean, I generally don't sit down and talk about it like you are. And I right now, this is allowing me to do a little, but I think it's something that I probably do a little bit intuitively. I don't know that I ever really stop and sit and think about it. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Well, I'll use one of my father's favorites, right. When in doubt, make a sales call. But I don't know that I get to the point. I realize after the fact that I solved for it right where I come back. [00:45:46] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. Like, doing it intuitively now, you know. [00:45:50] Speaker A: Versus sitting there and consciously connecting the dots, right? Oh, this equals one of those moments where I go, fill in the blank. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Sure. [00:45:57] Speaker A: Yeah, same. But I don't know. I think I'm more intentional about it now, just having just the repetitions and being alive and in these positions a lot more. But I don't know. I just think that if I spend time with younger members of our team, Tommy, who sits here and watches us shoot this real time all the time. I wish I had been able to listen to some of these conversations. When I listened to our podcast back, there are moments where I thought, boy, I wish I hadn't have waited so long, or I wish I hadn't have had any number of experiences before I knew this, or someone would have said it to me. I mean, I didn't grow up in the land of podcasts where everybody with a microphone and a recorder had this massive broadcast platform to put it out there. I really do wish that it would have been available when I was in my more formative years. I don't know what have happened. I'll never know the outcome. But that would have been, man, that would have been something. It really would have. And the people a generation before me said, oh, look what they have. Maybe I had a walk, man, and I could plug in a cassette. And I'm serious, right? I mean, walk bands came about, and I could actually take a walk and listen to something at the same time because no one could carry their record player with them. So maybe there were things that I did have when I was younger. Maybe I just didn't leverage them worth of shit, where if I had a brain, I wouldn't have been listening to music I would have been listening to an audiobook. I'm not even sure that was. [00:47:25] Speaker B: No. [00:47:26] Speaker A: And I can read. I was the worst reader in the entire world. I still am a terrible reader, so I don't know if I would have been able to leverage any of that anyway. But, boy, I would be really curious to see what I would have looked like with some of these different types of influences that are available. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the last thing I was going to touch on, which we've got into it already a little bit, is just the same thing. Like my athletic outside of work, I have those missions that keep me inspired. Same thing with work. I want to be doing something that's really uncomfortable and pushing for a new milestone. Right now, we're looking at expanding potentially another location, something like that. It doesn't have to be that, but that's what I'm saying. Like, big things that we're doing that are different, that are uncomfortable that we're expanding our products or new location or whatever that is, and you can't be doing that every month. It's like, it's not reasonable. But interjecting those big changes or evolutions are definitely something that break up the monotony and doing the same thing every day and keep me motivated. I have to be pushing for some in our business could be new certifications or whatever, but it's like big things that you're like, okay, that's here. You've got all the little milestones, but I need something big a lot of times to keep going because I can do all the little stuff, but I know that's over there and then that keeps me going. [00:49:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And one of the things that I've watched. So let's just talk about that. Right. For the idea that you are very serious about starting a DC office, I can say that. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Different new entity, not just by myself, but. [00:49:19] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Right, but you're the chief vision officer on this, right? [00:49:24] Speaker B: Chief vision officer. [00:49:25] Speaker A: You are the chief vision officer. And there's going to be lots of other ops people, right. There's going to be an operations component and everything that goes into any type of new adventure. But adventure and venture, it's both. One of the things that is great about that process is the interactions, too. I watched you engage and sat on a call with a new law firm, a new legal counsel who's a specialist in that space that is as foreign as anything to me. A new one for me recently was intellectual property and patent law for some things we're working on here. But the opportunity to engage and learn new things. So that is one that's. It's not just pursuing a DC office or a venture. There's all of the new knowledge. That's really what it is. And having the ability to be exposed to specialists, because they are. They are absolutely specialists. We've had the general versus special. When you start to invite specialists like intellectual property attorneys or business formation attorneys, I think there's. [00:50:29] Speaker B: Yeah, and specifically for the designations, I'm looking for location specific, all of it. [00:50:36] Speaker A: So talk about another motivator or how to avoid that is, if you are a life learner or wildly curious, then those will keep you going, too. So, yes, it's about the promise and the excitement of growth and or a new location. But, man, all of the steps in the process, to me, are equally as exciting. Learning things that I didn't know as part of it. It's just as exciting as the ultimate end game. [00:51:03] Speaker B: Well, I think that's what this all actually boils down to, is feeding your curiosity, learning, innovating, and that's in everything we're talking about, because we're doing new things, we're pushing out of our comfort zone. Every time I get a mile more, I learn something different about myself or my capabilities. Every time you get into a new automation opportunity, you're learning something different. So at the end of the day, I think it's expanding your horizons. It's getting a broader lens when you're adding to that, when you're a life learner. That, I think when you boil it all down, is the key to staying inspired and motivated. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Well, Arthur Brooks is one of our favorites, and we talked about, and wasn't one of his general, his general premise was, a lot of happiness is attached to fulfilling or maximizing your potential. Isn't that a big driver or a very large underpinning of happiness? It certainly is for me. And I thought in my readings or some of my studies, as we were. [00:52:13] Speaker B: Talking about, I haven't read his new book. [00:52:15] Speaker A: On one of the podcast pursuit of. [00:52:16] Speaker B: Happiness, I read strength to strength, which had a bit of a different premise. [00:52:20] Speaker A: Right. This one I thought, at least, maybe it's my made up story, but I agree with this, just this idea. I derive a lot of happiness, the opposite of ruts or burnout or all of that, from maximizing potential. That's a big one, right? [00:52:38] Speaker B: And you do that by chasing or starting new things that push you a little bit, right? You cannot do the same things. I know how you burn out. It's, you do the same shit day after day after day. [00:52:57] Speaker A: You know how you burn out for some people, there's a lot of safety and comfort in there. They're opposite. That would be very different. [00:53:03] Speaker B: That's a really good point. That's a good point. [00:53:05] Speaker A: You burn out. That is how I burn out. But I have any number of customers and people that I work with that this conversation would be terrifying. I mean, it would be unnerving where they are much more comfortable with that consistency and that routine. [00:53:23] Speaker B: This is what I'm talking about. [00:53:25] Speaker A: It would be terrifying. [00:53:26] Speaker B: I was traveling down that road so hard, and now I got a break. Because you're right. [00:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah. This is what resonates with us. And I'm sure there'd be people saying, those two are absolutely batshit crazy. Actually, people have told me that we. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Are batshit crazy, by the way, because. [00:53:43] Speaker A: It'S just so different from how they would approach it. [00:53:45] Speaker B: Tonight we were like, okay, this is typical us going to dinner with an agenda itinerary. And part of that is like, let's talk about our crazy visions and goals. That's literally part of we're going to dinner to talk about what's our crazy. [00:54:03] Speaker A: And one of the agenda items is talking about craziness. Yeah, you have to write it down. [00:54:08] Speaker B: It is, but again, that lights us up and it also connects us. [00:54:13] Speaker A: But that started, though, because you sent me, we were apart a little bit on Sunday, and I get this text and you had. [00:54:20] Speaker B: Yesterday, was it yesterday? We were apart for a workday. [00:54:24] Speaker A: I know, but I was flying. Right. And you had this epiphany thing and that my phone exploded. I was like, what the hell is that thing? It was a text from you that was six phones long that was talking about these breakthroughs that you had and this and that. At one point you said, I don't always tell you about the crazy stuff. And I'm thinking, why? Because you think I'm going to judge you? I'm the perfect person to tell crazy stuff. [00:54:45] Speaker B: And it wasn't that. It was just like, sometimes it's not even conscious. I don't know why. Not that I would think you would personally tell me it's crazy, but I don't want anything or anyone to tell me that it's crazy. [00:55:00] Speaker A: But that's how it got to be an agenda item, because there's a couple of things. There's some podcast stuff we were working on. There's some house stuff we're working on. And then in the bottom I put, oh, whatever that crazy shit you wanted to talk about put that on the agenda, too. [00:55:10] Speaker B: Yeah, but again, it's finding your right way. But those are definitely my ways. I know. Works for me. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Well, I think back to that know thyself thing is so important. And, man, you can miss wasting a lot of time and energy, the faster you figure out who you are, that self awareness, and not say, you can't change. Right. You don't have to be the same thing. God, I am nothing like I was not that long ago. But as long as you're aware and you can try to understand and relate to what you're experiencing, then you're going to get where you want to go a little faster than you would have otherwise. I believe. [00:55:55] Speaker B: Yes. While I would like to leave the audience with something inspirational and insightful, I don't think I'm going to do that. [00:56:05] Speaker A: You have to. [00:56:06] Speaker B: No, what I'm going to do is together, we are going to come back to you in a few episodes to see how your singing career is going. [00:56:19] Speaker A: Damn it. So you're going to call me out because I had this on. Part of our executive meeting is personal goals. And we have this really cool meeting format, ABCD and personal goals pops up every fourth one. So you have to be accountable to your teammates. And that was one I had on there, and I actually took it off because I was good on everything else, like, don't be so fat. I did that, but that one I took off. And now I'm going to have to put it back on and maybe I'll sing to the audience. We could do that. [00:56:47] Speaker B: You could sing, and then I'll take it one step further. So it is actually helpful you, because I said so. You're going to do some singing. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:01] Speaker B: And then you're going to come back. You could take all the time you need. You're going to come back and we're going to have a discussion about how it relates to this topic of motivation and inspiration and the correlation to work. And you could say, I have fun doing it, and I find it doesn't help with work at all. That's fine. [00:57:20] Speaker A: You know what's going to upset you about this? Do you know why I'm so interested in singing? Because it's a process, just like everything else. And I'm curious to see if I put the same type of tenacity into cutting half of a shot out of my score into this. If I can get to where I was in the land of golf. Well, that's my first. [00:57:39] Speaker B: If you love it, you will. [00:57:40] Speaker A: I know. All right. Fair enough. [00:57:42] Speaker B: Accept and then you can sing to me. [00:57:45] Speaker A: Wow. You are sweet pea. Challenge accepted. Look out, sucker. I'm coming after you.